16ga.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  16ga. General Discussion  ~  basket case 16 gage M12 redo
Lloyd3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:33 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1365
Location: Denver, Colorado

This will be a repeat for the folks that are over on the doublegun webpage as well but...

[url=https://imgur.com/WDIFx9Q] [/url]

[url=https://imgur.com/0KrTzVb] [/url]

[url=https://imgur.com/vuc21qE] [/url]

[url=https://imgur.com/8y0wLRz] [/url]

[url=https://imgur.com/h5CEKgo] [/url]

Circa 1927 Nickel Steel gun, 2 5/8 chamber, cracked 28-inch full choke barrel (not sure how that might have happened?) cut back to 26 1/2-inches (w/IC choke remaining). Hiding in a closet for the last 40-years (maybe more). Thank goodness for 2 1/2 inch RST! A nice back-up gun to have when grouse hunting with an English 16, eh?


Last edited by Lloyd3 on Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:15 am; edited 2 times in total

_________________
'Tis better to burn out than it is to rust......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Lloyd3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 7:00 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1365
Location: Denver, Colorado

[url=https://imgur.com/3v2OxW7] [/url]

All done. 6lbs9, 9 points of choke, new Williams Big Head safety in place.

_________________
'Tis better to burn out than it is to rust......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Swampy16
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:22 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Oct 2019
Posts: 453
Location: New Jersey

The stock looks to be much earlier, from a model 1912, what they called a scant stock. You should see my basket case. I think all the blue was gone in the 20’s lol. It’s hammered looking, pits in the barrel, but still kills and is still pretty tight. It’s a 20 with a factory 26” cyl choke barrel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lloyd3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:52 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1365
Location: Denver, Colorado

"Scant stock" eh...I like it. The later ones made the subgauge guns too-heavy. When I first saw this gun it wasn't even functional. The magazine tube was almost falling off of the barrel and the action wouldn't cycle. That's saying something as these early M12s are very hard to kill. Can't imagine how somebody cracked the barrel, other than that they shot steel in it? Looking forward to trying it out this week.

[url=https://imgur.com/BrEKper] [/url]


Last edited by Lloyd3 on Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
'Tis better to burn out than it is to rust......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
16gaDavis
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:34 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

I found out you could swage a 16ga M12/870 barrel with a 12ga MEC finish crimp die . Useing the taper in the top of the die .... worked OK on a couple guns , but on shooting targets with steel , it split the swage part . Nick just checked it out , and we kept right on firing away - no worries ! I might have been a little suspect , but Nick was a gunsmith , so didn't worry about it much .... never had that happen shooting Lead/Bizz

_________________
Molly sez AArrrooooooah !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
16gaDavis
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:36 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

Scant stock or fish bone , real easy to make into an even lighter English stock !

_________________
Molly sez AArrrooooooah !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lloyd3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:08 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1365
Location: Denver, Colorado

I actually had one made with an English stock a few years ago and while I liked it, this seems to work better for me. On a pump gun this just feels right. My primary grouse gun is a straight-gripped double (& that won't likely change) but....these early M12s are just so useful in the uplands. The short chambers are an inconvenience(!) but the dimensions and weight of these guns is just about perfect (at least for me). I haven't hunted with a pump gun for a long time now, but this one might get me back into that fold (at least occasionally). Part of that is nostalgia... but most of it is purely functional (a third shot can be pretty useful at times). This gun has been largely ignored for almost 50 years now, it won't be any more.

_________________
'Tis better to burn out than it is to rust......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:44 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

Lloyd,
Back in the day, old timers would sometimes load a round of birdshot that had been cut with a knife just above the brass head, in an attempt to have a “slug” for deer shooting while bird hunting. Minnesota did have laws preventing guys from carrying regular slugs while bird hunting. These home brewed “slugs” launch the entire cartridge out of the barrel, and often result in a split in the end of the barrel.
That old gun has been around long enough to have seen a few of those rounds.

Looks good.

Best,
Ted

_________________
"Well sir, stupidity isn't technically against the law, and on that note, I'll remove the handcuffs and you are free to go".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lloyd3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1365
Location: Denver, Colorado

Ted:

Thanks! That's as good an explanation as any.

I've heard about such things before (back in rural Pennsylvania where I grew up) but I've certainly never been driven to try it myself. I'd figured that upon the advent of Federal steel requirements for waterfowl (back in 1979 in my home state), somebody used it with steel shot without thinking about this full-choked gun, but... nobody will ever know now. The previous owner has been gone for many years (40?) and Carol certainly didn't know anything about it. The gun is surprisingly tight internally and it shows no other signs of significant wear or abuse, other than the obvious signs of benign neglect. Like so-many of these early, short-chambered guns, this one likely fell into disuse because shells that worked well in them simply weren't readily available. Most folks didn't (or wouldn't) handload the shorter shells then, so until the advent of commercially available 2 1/2-inch ammo in this country, these things were almost a dime a dozen. You couldn't really use them for much but they were simply too good to throw away so...they just languished in the back of lots of closets, occasionally being picked up by an idiot or two. Surprisingly, the short-chambered 20-gauge versions were much more forgiving and most would work (IE,. extract and then eject) with some brands of 2 3/4-inch shells (paper Remingtons come to mind) but the 16s were a no-go without a lot of work.

_________________
'Tis better to burn out than it is to rust......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:29 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

I have a first year model 1912 twenty gauge with an unaltered 2 1/2” chamber, that has digested and pumped out any round I have ever tried in it. None of those were 2 1/2” loads.

Best,
Ted

_________________
"Well sir, stupidity isn't technically against the law, and on that note, I'll remove the handcuffs and you are free to go".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lloyd3
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1365
Location: Denver, Colorado

Ted:

Shot the gun today (before this next storm). Perfect function and the clays were all breaking (when I did my part). My neighbor joined me for the trip and he shot it too. He's about the same size as Carol and he remarked about the LOP being a bit too-long. I thought it fit remarkably well.

_________________
'Tis better to burn out than it is to rust......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
peckerheadernie
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:56 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 114
Location: Louisville, KY

1927 gun should be a 2 3/4" chamber. I have a 1926 and is has the short chamber and I thought it was the last year. And I agree, thank God for RST.
That is from the Madis book on model 12's.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Lloyd3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 8:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1365
Location: Denver, Colorado

The changeover did appear to happen sometime late in 1927, but according to the Madis book, 500, 000 was roughly the serial number range where the 2 3/4-inch chamber became the standard. This gun is in the high 400-k's (487xxx) and it clearly doesn't have the longer chamber (we measured it). I also understand that if an M12 does happen to have the longer 16-gauge chamber, Winchester proudly stamped that fact upon the barrel.

_________________
'Tis better to burn out than it is to rust......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
16gaDavis
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

I would always go by the STAMPED , UnSTAMPED barrel as a good indicator ... The view of your receiver that I can see kinda looks like altered for longer shells with the rounded lower radius .... the good news is it's fairly easy to find/use shorter shells nowadays , and the guns just sing !!

_________________
Molly sez AArrrooooooah !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lloyd3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1365
Location: Denver, Colorado

Oh, ok. Thankyou for that. I'll have to try a standard 16 in it sometime.

_________________
'Tis better to burn out than it is to rust......
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next
16ga.com Forum Index  ~  16ga. General Discussion

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09