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Member Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 29 Location: Kansas

Help!

I have a 16 Auto 5 (old but not sweet) that has proved unreliable cycling a new shell into the chamber. It happens just often enough that I can't trust it in a duck blind. Even the heaviest loads occasionally hang up on the lip of the chamber.

I've had a local guy look at it and he thinks its OK. He says I'm softening the recoil and that it needs more resistance from my shoulder to cycle.

Someone else recommended that I send it to St Louis and let Browning look at it. Has anyone done that?

Hagrid

Midwest Guns Works has been recomended for A5s:
http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi
Simmons Gun Repair 700 Rogers Road Olathe, KS 66062 (913) 782-3131
is even closer.

If this gun has seen heavy use (especially in a duck blind), it may just need a good old fashioned tear down and cleaning.

I know some guys who have taken the wood off and submerged the entire action into solvent and soaked it, blew it out with a air hose, oiled the tar out of it and they say they had good results. I'm not sure I recommend that path though. Seems like a lot of stuff could end up in your trigger group etc.

If you are fairly mechanically inclined, go to www.brownells.com and get yourself an Auto-5 Screwdriver set and a tear down guide. You'll also need a good set of drift pins in 3/32" and 1/8" with the 3/32" needing at least 2"-3" of punch legnth if you want to drive the pins out of the sides to remove the bolt release button and shell release lever etc.

Screwdriver set to keep from boogering the screws up:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=406&s=

Takedown guide:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=8715&title=FIREARMS+TAKEDOWN+GUIDES

When I cleaned my A5 12 gauge after about 20 years of use, I found seeds, grass, caked on unspent powder, shot, quail feathers, pheasant feathers, and John Brownings pocket watch inside mine! Razz

I was also able to Flitz polish some of the parts that were a little rusty to smooth things out. It cycled and shot like a brand new gun and probably weighed 10oz less with all the goo removed. Wink

It was absolutely amazing the stuff stuck up in the hump over the action.

It really wasn't hard and actually kinda fun. I did the other 2 A-5's in the same afternoon.

Good Luck!

Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 76 Location: north Texas

What Ralph said!

For some reason, I was scared to death to take my Auto-5 completely apart - what with all the screws and screw-locks instead of pins and all. I shot it every duck season from 1975 until about 1995 with only partial cleaning, aerosols, and toothbrushing. I finally shamed myself into taking it apart for a thorough going-over - and it ended up being an easy task. Later, when I looked up the manufacture date, I found out that the gun was made some time in the '50s - so it had been shot for nearly 40 years with no thorough cleaning that I know of!

After that shameful realization, I now perform the task at the end of each hunting season and after it's been dunked or thoroughly soaked.

Like he said, the key is getting proper-fitting screwdriver blades so as not to bugger-up any screwheads.

xtm

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Houston

Don't overlook the recoil spring. I recently read an article by Chuck Hawk--said he replaces the recoil spring and bronze friction ring on every used A-5 he buys.

I followed that advice and found that the old spring was 5/8" shorter than the new one from Brownells. 50 years will do that. The new friction ring is TIGHT, but maybe that's what it needs, since my gun was cycling inconsistently. Haven't been able to try it out yet, since I'm still working on the wood.

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

I don't think it's the recoil spring, every time I replaced a spring or friction ring it made the gun harder to cycle, at least with light loads.....and your problem is intermittant, that's a clue.

The teardown advice and cleaning is good. If it's a little over your comfort level do this much. Pull off the stock. Bast the insides out with solvent till it runs clean. Save the debris, there will be enough for a wren to build a pretty respectable nest.

While your at it (and this is important) remove the action spring from the tube that runs into the stock. It is held in with a pin. Be careful as you press out the pin so it does not fly all over the place. Scrub the spring and the inside of the tube, it will be full of dried up lube. Use a .38 cal bore brush or similar. Replace the parts.

Now that that is done let's solve the probelm that I believe is causing your problem.........take the magazine spring out of the mag tube. Clean it and the inside of the tube. Now the solution, stretch the spring to add a good 1-2" to it's length. Replace parts and shoot.

One more thing to watch, make sure that when you are loading the gun that the last shell you put in the magazine is resting on the catch on the shell block. The brass should protrude about 1/4" outside the mag tube. I've seen shells that tended to rest up in the tube (like in a Ithaca Model 37) Making sure the mag spring is pushing hard enough can help prevent this.

Let us know how it goes,

Jeff

Member Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 29 Location: Kansas

Thanks guys, this is all good stuff, especially the do-it-yourself part. this is more conversation than I've been able to get out of any gunsmith so far.

Some one else on this board said via PM that jamming of a new shell at the mouth of chamber was usually a tired lifter spring that lifts the new shell up from the magazine tube to the action in front of the bolt.

Has anyone else dealt with this remedy?

Hagrid

Is the gun short cycling? "Is the locking block/bolt closed after you fire the gun"? If it is then the friction ring assembly #36,37,38 may be installed improperly (heavy loads) or the Recoil Spring (#60) may be TOO stiff for the loads you are shooting. I kinda doubt your having short cycle spring problems with Duck Loads! You can change the spring as mentioned above but I doubt that will help you. My 20ga was a little picky with factory light loads for my wife. I flitzed the tar out of the magazine tube to make it smooth, made sure the friction rings were installed correctly, and have to make sure that it is good and lubricated for it to function consistently. No problems since. I used to put two friction rings in my A5 12ga for trap to keep the hulls from ejecting.

Or..

Is it not wanting to close the locking block on the shell? Basically, is the shell hanging up and not allow the block to lock up? Is the chamber block easy to open and smooth? As mentioned by Jeff above, the action spring (item #1 below) (not the recoil spring item #60) may be weak, is dirty, or has come unpinned if the action won't close. Can you open the mag release and will a shell chamber every time without firing? I had a buddy who was having problems with his shotgun not having the umpf to load a shell into the chamber when we were pheasant hunting one year. When I took the stock off, the action spring plug pin (#83 below) holding the spring in (#1) was mia and the main spring plug was not seated fully in the tube. We made a pin out of some piano wire and we were in business.

The other thing that could make the shell hang up in the gun is the carrier (#11) hanging up on the Carrier latch button (#17) and Carrier latch assembly (#16) which won't move the shell into proper alignment with the block as it closes resulting in a jam in the receiver. The Carrier spring (#19) could be weak as well.

You can replace all the coil springs in the gun for less than $60. The other springs may be a little more pricey.

And as I mentioned before, there could be some crud fouling the whole works up!

Good Luck!

Member Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 29 Location: Kansas

Thanks again to Ralph, xtimberman, 662, and Jeff for your help. I knew this board was a good idea.

I've ordered the screwdriwers, takedown guide and some springs from Brownells and can't wait to get started. It may take a while for me to report back, I'm having the stock replaced too. It was cut down for a kid I think, and way too high.

Ralph, you joined just today! Thanks for showing up.

Hagrid

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Houston

Hagrid,

I see you originally posted a month ago! Sorry it took so long to get help to you. I guess your post got lost in the holiday crush.

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

Hagrid,

Did this post really hang out there for a month? Or is the date messed up?

Two questions,

1) In your early post you said this was an early 16, what is the chamber length per the proof marks? 65mm or 70mm?

2) is the shell that fails to feed always the last shell to feed from the magazine? Or the only one in the magazine?

Jeff

NOTE: I just looked back in Hagrid's posts, per the old posts this is a 1930's gun and has 2 9/16" chambers. It is likely that he's trying to shoot 2 3/4" shells in it.....Hagrid, was if modified for longer shells? All the steps? Do you know how to tell if it was done right? There are lots of partially or poorly modified guns on the market, they are inconsistent in handling 1 2/3" shells.....let us know...

Member Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 29 Location: Kansas

Yeah, I did post this thread in Dec. I'm glad to see it perk up...I'm getting some good info.

Jeff-- I was mistaken about the age of the gun. I've now determined it is from the early 60s, it is a Sweet 16, and chambered for 70mm.

I have not noticed a pattern in which shell jams. Sometimes its the first one out and sometimes it fires twice and jams on the third shell.

I did try some 2 1/2 inch Polywad shells I had around and they eventually hung up too.

My stock guy has the gun or I'd post a picture.

I'm traveling tomorrow. If I go silent for a couple of days I'll catch up on the weekend.

Hagrid

Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 22 Location: NE Tennessee

Good disscussion.What year did Browning go from a 2 9/16 chamber to a 2 3/4?

Hagrid,

The spookiest part of tearing down Mr. Brownings beloved Auto-5 is to remove the bolt from the gun. You have to slide the block/bolt back until the cross pin #46 (just below the bolt handle) lines up with the cut in the bottom of the ejection port on the right side. You then insert a punch into the LEFT side of the gun into a small pocket where the pin resides. The reason I say it is spooky is the manuals say to push the pin out. Lets be honest, pushing, shoving, and nothing short of full out gentle pounding was required on my old belgium 12ga. This pin holds in the locking block latch#45 and spring#47. They will fall out when you pick up the reciever so don't loose them. I'm sure my gunsmith / tool and die maker dad would have had a total coronary if he saw me get that pin out. Make sure you have a (1/8" I believe) punch long enough (2-1/2"-3") to shove it clear through the receiver. Also, if you want to remove the guts from the bolt you will need a stern hammer as well. I would recommend using a plastic block or something similar to "hammer" on. Brownells sells them but you can make your own pretty easy with some soft wood and a drill.

It really is easy. Just takes a little nerve the first time. These things are a lot tougher than they look but it sure makes you nervous to "gently and carefully" pound the crap out of your precious shotgun.

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

Pleasant Ridge,

When FN resumed production after WW2 all the 16 ga A5's marked Browning and made for export to the US had 2 3/4" chambers. I believe they continued to make some short chambered guns for other markets.

In addition there are some A5's made after the war that are marked 65mm-2 3/4" shells indicating they were suitable for both. I don't know why they marked this, you can always shoot the shorter shell with no issues....

I've encountered 2 of these "dual marking" guns in the last year, both in Canada.

Jeff