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Hootch
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1460
Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Had a little complaint with Kent Cartridge. Sent them an email, next day, VP of marketing emailed me back and wanted to call me and talk to me, which he did.

We discussed incident, but in the end, got to express my praise for Kent and their commitment to 16ga especially the non toxic. WIthout it, be hard hunting with my 16ga for pheasants anyway.

Suffice it to say, these guys have a lot of integrity and outstanding customer service.
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AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:56 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3172
Location: NCWa

When are they going to bring back Tungsten Matrix in 16ga?
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Byron Whitlock
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:15 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Oswego, Kansas

How about some 2 1/2' shells with Bismuth?

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hoashooter
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:26 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 08 Nov 2005
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Location: Illinois

Email them instead of questioning the original poster?????
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Hammer bill
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:03 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 815

Non toxic is like wearing a covid mask. All for nothing.never used it and never will.
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AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:38 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3172
Location: NCWa

Hammer bill wrote:
Non toxic is like wearing a covid mask. All for nothing.never used it and never will.


I prefer to shoot lead, since the youngest shotgun I have is 50 years of age and hard shot would ruin it- but hunting with lead is becoming extremely limited. About all that is left is non-migratory birds on private land. That excludes any waterfowl/doves or wildlife department land.

so the shotguns are more wall hangers and target guns than their original intent. Thanks government.
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Hammer bill
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:40 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 815

It is a proven that lead is nontoxic to game. My God a duck would have to eat that stuff enough to sink it before it would be killed by poison
Remember when my daughter swallowed a 22 LR. Dr took her to Dr. He said dont worry she will pass it and besides it wont hurt her.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:26 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

If you live in a state that has outlawed Lead shot use the Bismuth especially if you have Classic double guns. I do realize the non toxic laws are way over blown, and I still view them as back door gun control. The Bismuth shells work real well in Classic double guns, and they are completely safe for your older double guns. Here in Pa we hunt everything but Ducks and Geese with lead shot in most places.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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stevesavage
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:55 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Apr 2017
Posts: 150

I agree about non toxic shot. Lead shot is not the problem it is made out to be. If someone feels it is, prove it with a really good test.
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Hootch
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1460
Location: Eagle, Nebraska

We did not discuss short hulls, that would have been a good question.
Topic I will bring up next time.

Did not discuss Tungsten Matrix, still offered in their line in 12GA I believe.
Got the feeling tungsten is tough to get and very expensive, and in today's made up world of "supply chain" issues, that wont get any better.

My point to Kent with the Bismuth (or TM if they made it) it is the best non-toxic load for the 16ga at least for pheasants. In a lot of places I hunt, required to use non-toxic shot, and Kent keeps me humping new and old 16ga's to the field.

Federal thinking about adding it to their line in 2023, but we shall see.

As far as lead not being toxic, well, there is a ton of studies out there to show that it is.
Lead accumulates in the entire food chain, shooting in wetlands in the same locations over many years will lead up to accumulation of lead.
The odd thing to me then, is, doves...shot in same locations often times by large groups and a ton of shooting compared to waterfowl, yet lead not yet banned for shooting doves. Doves also regulated by Feds, but sure that is coming too.

I had not intented to discuss whether or not lead is toxic, just wanted to post that Kent Cartridge people I found to be good honest open people, and rare for large corporations I doubt highly I would have received same treatment from the other large ammo manufactors.

If you wish to leave head in the sand and not believe lead is toxic so be it. It wont be long and wont be even using lead bullets at small and large game, and that is coming sooner than later.
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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 7:23 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

HB - there is no issue with lead till the Gamie stops you . He can tell what's in your shells and the fine at the Rez was 85 bucks min . If you fail to pay it , your name is flagged in the computer for future licenses , so you have to pick ! The Indians can be tough (like Canadians !) ! So can the US game officials - ask posts from 12yrs ago here who didn't ID their birds at the air port ! You have to pick your poison !

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Byron Whitlock
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:16 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 488
Location: Oswego, Kansas

Hootch, you say that lead shot is still allowed for doves. Well you have not hunted them in nearby Kansas because the KDWPT requires non-toxic shot on state operated dove fields. Of course there is no steel shot loads for 16ga lighter than #4 on the market so we must load our own since Bismuth is available but too expense for high volume shooting.

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stevesavage
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Apr 2017
Posts: 150

I agree lead can be toxic but where are the tests proving doves ingest lead shot in quantities that they harm the doves. I suspect there is a power and money angle behind banning lead shot.
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silverbowff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:23 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Jun 2020
Posts: 140
Location: Spokane, WA

The issue of ingestion of lead pellets isn’t a matter of quantity. It is the acidity on a relatively small number of shot in the proventriculous and the mechanical grinding that takes place in the ventriculous that increase the absorption to the birds system and causes damage to the vital organs, eventually resulting in death.

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nj gsp
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:37 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 437
Location: WI

I have a friend of mine that has seen enough wild birds die from lead poisoning that she voluntarily uses non-toxic ammunition for everything, including rifle ammo for deer. She said it was absolutely heartbreaking to watch an Eagle die from lead positioning after it ate a single buckshot pellet from a deer carcass. There was nothing they could do to save it.

Personally, I feel it's less of an issue for non-waterfowl like upland birds, but I get it.

People will always fight non-toxic ammunition as long as it costs more and/or is less effective - or simply perceived as less effective - than lead.
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