16ga.com ~ View topic - Crimp options for 2 1/2" shells

Byron Whitlock -- Heh, heh . . . You just listeded exactly what I'm talking about. You've got a hand drill, a roll crimper, a hull vice and some board and you're spending a relatively great amount of time. Compare all that to just using something like a MEC 600, using the same adjustments used for the same hull in it's regular length and then doing a regular crimp on a slightly shortened hull after putting a little overshot card on top -- i.e. a Hartin crimp. What I said to Makintrax73 was that he already has everything he needs -- and that is true. The over-shot card is required for both the Hartin crimp or a roll crimp, so no difference there.

Yes, I sometimes like to roll crimp, too. And I know you've got a system down to do a lot of roll crimps in a timeframe that is satisfactory -- to you. When I roll crimp, my process, equipment and time expectations are basically the same as yours. I set up with a little drill press, though. The crimps that way are much more uniform, and I can do it faster than I can hand holding a drill with a roll crimper in it (and perhaps gyrating it around, as some folks think they need to do). Details, right? Yeah, I'm sure you do the job quickly and uniformly, too. But the object of my post was to show a fellow there is another way to crimp a shorter shell with no additional equipment beyond his normal reloader, and virtually no time difference to perform the task -- and that's true.

If a person loads a 16 gauge shell shorter than the typical standard US over-the-shelf so-called 2 3/4 incher (minus, not plus up to 1/8 inch actually) he has 3 choices:
1) Get, or make a short kit for a typical reloading press so a pie crimp can be made.
2) Roll Crimp
3) Hartin Crimp

Choices 1 and 2 necessitate reducing the wad column height to suit the shortened hull. Choice 3 allows the same wad column and the same load as in the 2 3/4 inch hull, and finished shell length is the same. In the eye of the beholder, as in all matters of taste or style, the roll crimp might be more aesthetically pleasing. On the other hand, some folks might like the look of a Hartin crimp. Properly done, there is no functional difference. Some might think the avoidance of $70 or more worth of tools and the time to set them up and fiddle with them makes a Hartin crimp more aesthetically pleasing. To each his own. I feel strongly both ways! Laughing

Cheers!

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

I just pie crimp my 2 1/2" loads using cut down hulls (Rem RGL, Fed, Herter's/Cheddite) and it works perfectly well. The other methods are too much fuss for me since they offer no performance advantage and I have never cared for overshot cards, no matter how cool roll or Hartin crimped shells look.

RGL's seem to be ideal for shortening to 2 1/2" and so far seem to last longer this way too. I have no problem loading 5/8-7/8 oz loads and I have a pet 1 oz. load that uses Longshot. That 1 oz. load is also a candidate for low pressure, listed at about 7,200 psi.

I simply elongated the one hole in my Mec 650 base so I could reset the post/ tool head height for 2 1/2" shells. I also trimmed the bottom of the wad guide (new style black wad fingers). Other than that it was a matter adjusting the dies. I believe things are simpler if one is using a Mec 600/Jr. due to availability of a "short kit" spacer.

Joined: 27 Oct 2017 Posts: 80 Location: Joliet, IL

Well, I did some adjustments on the MEC. With shells trimmed just over 2 9/16", and a dense powder like Win572, I can crimp with a full star crimp over 1 OZ shot. No Hartin crimp needed. This was with standard SG16 wads.

The SG16 short wads I ordered don't actually seem to sit any lower on the powder per my measurement. Whether they will actually seat down farther with a little crimp pressure remains to be seen.

Next I will have a go with a less dense powder like Unique and see how that goes.

Also I tried the "short shell kit" out on the MEC. It does NOT work with 2 9/16" trimmed shells. The final crimp station bottoms out and crushes the shell. It doesn't adjust up far enough to go from 2 1/2 to 2 9/16.

In order to get the crimp looking OK with 2 9/16" shells I had to max out the cam setting on the MEC. It would probably work better If I transferred the short kit base over to a thinner piece like 1/8" instead of the 1/4" plate that the short shell kit has. It would take a lot of file work since I don't have a mill. But I think I could create my own "medium" Laughing

kit on 1/8" aluminum with some time spent and get my cam adjustment back.

EDIT: Well I measured again with a little wad pressure over 20.0 Unique. The "short" SG16 wad does indeed sit about .050" lower in the shell than the standard version. I was able to get a respectable looking crimp that needs just a touch more adjustment with 20.0 Unique, a SG16 short, and 1 ounce of shot.

Now it will need some time spent tweeking my pre-crimp and crimp die, then testing shells for velocity and SD, then perhaps send some in for pressure testing.

.....off to bed after a long night in the loading room. Cool

short kit = a nickel or suitable coin under the wad starter , under the crimp starter , and under the final crimp stage - whatever coins are needed on top of that to make the crimp you like !! Generally cut all my cases to 29/16'' and have loaded a million shells like this . (maybe less than a million , but you get my drift !)

Joined: 27 Oct 2017 Posts: 80 Location: Joliet, IL