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Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

Not very surprising (the other tests kinda spelled it out) and not very encouraging to use Green Dot for this particular application.

Everyone has wondered why Alliant stopped publishing the 20 gauge 7/8 oz. loads with Green Dot. Pretty obvious that something about Green Dot has changed and it might not be suitable for the smaller gauges.

If you look at the velocities they are about what you might expect maybe a bit higher, but the chamber pressure took a jump over what has been recorded previously.

If I am being honest, the 19.0 grain load is not an eye opener, although the chamber pressure is a bit higher than you would expect. I would expect it to be at or over MAP.

The 17.5 grain load should have been OK.

Here is a load I tested and was published in 2000.

Remington SP16 2 3/4" hull
Remington 209 STS primer
17.0 grains Green Dot
Z2M16 wad
7/8 oz. lead shot

1,227 FPS 9,700 PSI

I can't check this load as I don't have the Remington 209 STS primer. I might try it with a CCI209 primer.

The 15/16 oz. load should have worked in the Federal hull, but it might have been close to MAP, but not 12,900 PSI. Then again the load sent in also used a Federal 209A primer. But I still don't think it should have been 1,400 PSI over MAP.

Start looking through the data we have access to. Only BPI has loads using that much Green Dot and shot, (not that it is anything new).

IMHO, the loads you want to look at are loads from Lyman & Mike Campbell. You can find Mike Campbell's loads in the spreadsheets.

I have the old copies from George Phyle that have the source of the load. BPI is not the place to look for loading data. I don't know what the new spreadsheets look like.

what occurred to me - I'm kinda going thru the same/similar thing in my 28ga Feds is that I have a 50/50 mix of the old fiber base cases and the newer plastic base cases . No one ever mentions using , or not using these cases as one . I can tell just as I'm loading these one from another . I also have piles of 16ga Fed cases , and I'm sure the same phenom exists . I know i need to go thru those and separate them . I'm also sure if you got a batch of each tested , they would not be the same - load for load ! I am NOT a firm believer in the new plastic based stuff .

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

The paper basewad Federals aren't a big departure from the plastic basewad cases. If anything the plastic basewad hulls will produce lower chamber pressures, at least in 12 gauge they do. Nothing huge, but it will be a difference.

I don't think that the 16 gauge hulls have been changed to the plastic basewad, I believe they still have a paper basewad. Or have you found some 16 gauge Federal hulls that have plastic basewads. If you have can you cut one in half and post a picture?

Thanks

These are very new paper base wad hulls. Tom though the same thing.
I have yet to see a plastic base wad Federal 16 gauge hull.

Jim

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

I like the paper basewad 16 ga. Federals, I really hope they don't change them.

yep Mark , i haven't checked 16ga Feds in eons - just trying to find something that may be diff to cause the disparity ! All the other ga Feds have gone plastic - I like my paper wads too !

I sent a letter to Alliant with the data sheets.
I basically got a CYA answer and the only loads that are not obsolete are the loads on their website or most recent catalog.

Anyone care to sell me some SP-16 wads?
I'm going to send out the load on their website for testing.
I'll likely send a 12 gauge trap load too for testing.

If they changed the formula, which I believe they did as there was some issue with people cracking 20 gauge tubes. They pulled all the 20 gauge Green Dot 7/8 oz. loads except the ones in Federal hulls.

Jim

Joined: 27 Oct 2017 Posts: 80 Location: Joliet, IL

Joined: 21 Mar 2019 Posts: 523 Location: Texas

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/938427587

Thanks.
I think makintrax73 will likely come through for much less than that, but good to have options.

Jim

Joined: 21 Mar 2019 Posts: 523 Location: Texas

Yea I guess, even if you have to give your first born to get them

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2349 Location: West MI

Regarding the Green Dot pressure issue. My go to summer long range load has been that RGL load w/#8 lead right out of Lymans 5th and on the spread sheets but with a w209 or ched209/cx2000

RP SP 16 Plastic 7/8 oz. Green Dot 18.0 Rem 209P Rem SP-16
1266 9,800 Lyman's 5th

Without pressure testing but by going with the thump on my shoulder test that 18grn gets your attention. Over a couple years of shooting it I've whittled it down to 15.5grn and now it's been a pleasure to shoot in a Tshirt and vest and breaks targets just fine in #6.5-7lb guns.

I don't think I'll ever put more 16.5 grains of Green Dot in any 16 gauge shell.
I'll be interested to see what a traditional 12 gauge trap load will measure up to as well.

Jim

PS, thanks makintrax73, I got the wads.

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

Quite unsettling to consider that a published load would come in over pressure. I’d be curious what numbers Precision would measure for the loads in question.

B.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1843 Location: Central ND

i worked with Green Dot and 1 oz. loads and the B & P Z2M16 wad years ago and I could never get any 1 oz. load to exhibit numbers that most people would want. Only anemic loads around 1100 FPS with the pressure bumping up against 11,500 PSI. 18.0 grains if I remember right.

I did build a couple of 7/8 oz. loads. One in an RGL using 17.0 Grains of Green Dot and one in a Winchester 2 piece plastic hull using 18.0 grains. Pressures for the RGL was 9,700 PSI @ 1,228 FPS and the Winchester was 9,800 PSI at 1,264 FPS.

Green Dot isn't a heck of a lot slower than 700-X, where some of the 19.0 Grain GD loads come from doesn't make a lot of sense.