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Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

We have in the past, cussed and discussed Wal-Mart as a gun and ammunition merchandiser. The fact that some stores will no longer be selling firearms has been brought up too.
This hit home for me today, when I visited my local Wal-Mart over the lunch hour and saw a large sign behind the gun counter which said "As of Feb. 1 we will no longer be selling Guns"...this store is in LaPorte, IN which is quite an outdoor sports community; plenty of deer, duck and turkey hunters and a few hard core bird hunters like myself. I talked to the Sporting Goods Manager and was struck by these impressions:

1.She does not love or hate guns; they are just a product to her so she has no idea of the impact this has on gun owners/prospective gun owners. She was indifferent to the fact that there is a non-trivial portion of her client base that Wal-Mart will no longer be fully serving.

2. She stated they were exiting the firearms sales because the paperwork was costly/time consuming, they have few people who are good at it, there is little margin in guns anyway, and it hasn't been profitable for them.

3. They will continue to sell ammo---so she says anyway.

4. I asked if they were discounting their firearms and she replied no, they would be boxed up, returned to the warehouse and redistributed to those stores continuing to sell guns. In my immediate area, she stated that would be Valparaiso, 38 miles from my house....

We've all written of our displeasure with Wal-Mart; I've done it myself on this forum. But consider the implications here: The Government has made the paperwork and red tape involved with purchasing a firearm, so onerous that even THE low-cost, compete-on-price Wal-Mart Corporation finds it can't make a profit selling them...It's ok if you have a Mom and Pop gun store close by (I do), but where would you buy your guns if you did not have access to such a store? Buying them sight-unseen on the Internet is not such a neat idea---and by the way, who knows how long THAT's going to go on?? And where will the newcomer to the sport, the guy who wants a .22 to kill the summer groundhog in the garden, or the would-be hunter seeking his first single-barrel 20 gauge, find these entry level guns now??

The implications of this situation are not positive. Prices of ammo and components have shot up (pardon the pun) in the last year. Long time outlets for guns, ammo and components that we've counted on for years are drying up. If you want your guns and ammunition, you damn well better be buying them now. It may not be long before you can't find a source reasonably close to you. My conclusion is that for all of us, it's a lot later than we think....

Likewise I've been extremely frustrated with Walmart. They haven't the slightest interest in accomondating my ammunition needs the numerous times I've spoken with managers there.

There is a glimmer of hope though; I've noticed a bunch of Dick's Sporting Goods stores opening up in my area. They seem to be jumping on [among other things] the ammunition and sporting guns niche. Though they don't always have what I'm looking for 16g wise, they do cater to the generic .22s, rifles, and shotguns. I'm not saying their customer service is the best, but at least it's a place to go to buy "a .22 to kill the summer groundhog in the garden".

It's a good thing too, 'cause my neighborhood gunshop, "Bennett's" in Freeport to those familiar with the area, just closed. I went by the other day to see a sign in the window "Closed for Good. Retiring". Disconcerting to say the least.

Well I'm glad to hear Dick's is working for somebody. Here at the Davenport store they could care less to the ammunition sales. And as for Walmart, well there isn't enough time to write of my displeasures. Seems we all wanted more for less and we got what we asked for. 15 to 20 years ago everybody welcomed them into the community and after all the small stores have since gone here we sit Sad

I currently live about 25 miles from the Quad City area and have done my best to cater to the small stores in and around my immediate community Very Happy

For when Walmart is the only store in town we will have accomplished there goal to be our sole supplier and we will live as they did in the mining towns 110 yrs ago. You buy from them at their price and you like it.
Ahh! Hell! enough rambling Evil or Very Mad

Cheers gentlemen,
Charlie

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

You know what, I'm glad Walmart is getting out of the gun business.
I would much rather support my little local gunshop. I buy from him, whenever I can. I have never bought a gun from a big box store.
These places have put all the little local hardware stores out of business, along with the corner 5 and 10. Have you ever tried getting good advice or information from the girl behind the Walmart counter? Sad

Or the 18 year old kid at the Menard's?

Joined: 21 Jan 2006 Posts: 166

I see it as a positive development as well. I have several smaller shops in the area, and it can only serve to benefit them.

Granted, my easy access to cheap ammo may dry up, but I'll deal with that. There is a Dick's another 10miles up the road that has cheap ammo anyway, and if I'm looking for specialized ammo...I'm going to the mom and pop shop anyway.

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

Gentlemen: I take your point about the small shops...I have one too that I can patronize...for now...but my dealer has MS, and I can see his health deteriorate month by month. He's looking for someone to sell his shop to, and even if he does sell it, the service and atmosphere won't be the same---because he carries his customer knowledge around in his head and the new "management team" won't have it; how could they possibly have all the client knowledge this man has built up since 1955?

The major point I'd like to make is this: folks like us have the savvy to deal with whatever wholesaler or specialty shop, and we have the connections to ultimately find what guns or supplies we want--for now--, so we will be impacted the least in the short run. BUT we want to attract NEW enthusiasts to the hunting and shooting sports. They have to start someplace, and they need entry level guns and equipment to do it. One thing Wal-Mart did do is make these commonly available to "the masses". If we don't get the young men and women interested in the blood sports, hunting and shooting will eventually become passe'. It takes access to gear and products ---relatively low cost, widely available products---to do this; the more inconvenient it is to buy entry level guns, the fewer folks are going to try the sport. I want to be shooting skeet with some young folks too when I retire in 7-10 years or so.

So if Wal-Mart does indeed go through with this plan to curtail gun sales, I hope some other firm or firms step up. The alternative may be gloomy for the shooting sports.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

I have been with the same gun dealer for about as many years as I have been with my barber.Wal-M hires those with little/no experience no matter in the sporting goods or automotive section.The motivation is profit for the managment not the concern for the legacy,history or pride of hunting,reloading or loafing around in general -----The reasons to visit a real gun shop---which are becoming fewer each year------Much of the problem lies with the fact the younger folks have never been exposed to anything other than fast food,faster checkouts and faster games-------The things which have any real value to us means little or nothing to them-----We are bringing up a new generation of shooters at the clu but the question remains-----How long will they be interested in the shooting sports????

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

I find it amazing that the people who inhabit this forum would patronize Wally's gun dept anyway. If WM got out of the gun business entirely, it would have zero effect on where I buy.

My purchasing habits have evolved over the years and now can be put into one of 3 categories.

1. Ammo Components & Accessories - order from websites like Grafs or Midsouth.

2. Guns, new or used - find them on the web (gunbroker, gunsamerica, dealer sites,etc) and have them transfered thru a local pawn shop, who's owner can handle the "oppressive" paper work in under 2 minutes, MAX.

3. I periodically visit the only real gun shop in the area, both because I'm a friend of the owners and because he occasoinally gets an interesting used piece in trade. But my friendship doesn't extend as far as buying new guns from him, his priices are just too far above what I can find on the web.

There is a 4th pseudo category. I'll pay a visit now and then to a mega sports store (Cabelas, Basspro etc) or the odd gun show. But never to buy, just to look at and shoulder new guns which might be of interest. When I see something I want....well, see no.2 above.

If all this makes me a mercenary, so be it. But I thought it was called a free market economy because we have a choice.

Pete

Member Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 450 Location: Indiana

Gentlemen, all are good points you have made.

But if this sport is going tol live it must start at the manufacturing level who must start putting the pressure on the Feds to ease up on the paperwork.
They must be the one to get the ball a rolling for help young shooters get into the sport.
I shoot at a club a couple of times a month. They offer anyone under the age of 18 free trap shooting if they are acompanied with a adult member. They have very little intrest in this because it is still to expensive for the parents ot kids to afford.
You can look at the sporting goods stores for discout ammo or guns but it is not really discount it mainly they have a offer from their main supplier of manufacture on overstocked stuff they want to get rid of so if they buy in quanity the can offer a discout in their store. And believe me if no other sporting goods store intered into the same deal you would not get a discount just because one store got the deal.

I found out this week that their was a gun club that got a semi of shot in which amounted to 32 ton. But their was not any shooters that got the shot. Dicks, Gander Mountain, and some other large store bought all of it right off the truck. It never reached the clubhouse. Their is one large sporting store that is selling shot for 34.00. My how they care about the sportsman.

So if you don't patronize Wally world and the larger places then the manufactures will need to go to the smaller business or not only the sportsman willl be done but so will the manufactures.

I may have missed spelled many of words because of my big fingers and being in a hurry to go to work but I hope you get the Idea.

Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 268 Location: Meridian, ID

Gentlemen:

You have all made some valid points, but I think you have also all missed the point, or at least the problem.

The biggest problem with the decline of hunting/shooting participation is lack of reasonable access and a larger and more urbanized society. People are further removed from the land more and more with each passing day. And population growth and sprawl eat up good land. And as land becomes more scarce and expensive those that own it become more protective of what they own and are more likely to charge people to use it.

Today those involved in agriculture make up not much more than 10% of the population. 50 years ago it was probably 3-5 times that. So even if you weren't farming or ranching there's a good chance you knew or were related to somone who did.

A background check to purchase a firearm(especially a hunting firearm) while an annoyance and complete waste of time and money is not the cause of the problem. And since the Republican wing of the NRA did nothing for six years to change that you'll just have to accept it for now.

Firearms sales including shotguns have actually increased in the last year. The reason the small local shops are becoming a thing of the past is the big boxes that can buy direct at better prices. And price what they sell accordingly. Retail is retail, it doesn't matter what you're retailing.

It's all about access. If you don't want the US to be more and more like Europe and Great Britain access must be maintained if not improved.

It's all about access! Wink

I quess I have to stick my nose in here. I quess we are lucky up here in Minnesota. I don't know anyone that would go to walmart to buy a firearm or shells. From southern Minnesota to Northern minnesota we have some of the best suppliers of firearms and ammunition. The only places I know of that have what you would call the big box stores are Duluth and Medford. I could name a dozen places I could go to buy firearms within 50 miles either direction. As far as 16 gauge shells no problem. Check out Ahlmans in Morristwn or Reed's in Walker and Baxter or even Glen's army navy sore in Grand Rapids, maybe even L&M in Grand Rapids for shells. Then try all of the pawn shops for firearms.

Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 787 Location: Indiana

To all who have replied: As usual, what's neat about this forum is the variety of experience and ideas we bring to an issue. There have been ideas/opinions expressed on this topic that took it in directions I would not have thought of. And of course, everyone is indeed entitled to their own opinion. The "problem", as some have expressed it, is hard to encompass in one reply; in fact I think most would agree that a BOOK devoted to the topic of keeping the shooting sports alive, would probably not do justice to the subject.
The access to land to hunt and shoot on is an issue. A very valid point. And I know how retail works; over the last 30 years as a banker I've financed enough of it, and received lessons paid in very hard coin as a result. But I am not a gun snob. To repeat, if we are going to keep people interested in this sport, we need to provide low-cost access to safe firearms: the Savages, Marlins, Mossbergs and Remington Spartans and Expresses of this world. Whether or not YOU or I would shoot them is hardly the point. The point is, if this sport is priced out of the hands of the common man, long term, it is DOOMED !! WE can shop anywhere we want to---but the few of us on this forum are hardly enough in number to keep the shooting sports alive ! If we were, would we have to put together a bulk order for 16 ga. wads from Recob to get 1 ounce 16 ga. wads?

Some talk of the Internet---but about 30-40% of the population don't have a computer in the home--and many of us who do (READ OLDER) are not going to order guns/components over the net---hats off to those who do.

I just today went back to the LaPorte WalMart and I witnessed a young man, early 20's, buying his first .22---a Savage bolt action, synthetic stock, priced at $105.00. He was asking me whether the "long shells or the short shells" were best. I explained how his rifle worked, helped him pick out some .22 LR ammo and eye /ear protection, and helped him select a case for $9.95. I remember that, 40 years ago, I was that southern Indiana hillbilly whose Dad didn't want him to shoot and hunt, and how I wanted a rifle and shotgun and was looking for help. Good thing my Grand dad was there to set me straight.

I can't see how the demise of gun sales at Wal-Mart---as inefficient and slovenly as they can often be---is going to help make low cost firearms available to the entry level shooter. Sour grapes aside, I hope we can all see how important it is for the manufacturers to sell all the guns they can, to all the new and old shooters who'll buy them....if we want them to stay in business to make the guns WE want.

Is anyone missing the even bigger picture? In New York our tax dollars have paid to re-introduce the Hawk, Falcon, Coyote and Fox. Guess what... with Hawks, Falcons Coyotes anf Foxes do you really need the Bird Hunter, the Rabbit hunter, The Deer Hunter, to keep the local game populations in check?

The small gun shop is slowly following the path of the small appliance repair shop. The only thing we can do is support the little gun shops and pay a few extra dollars before we have no place to shop.

Well my soap box is creaking from under my weight so I'll step down now.

Good luck to all,

Peter

Take a young person hunting. Introduce them to your dog. Try to explain that killing that bird is not wrong. It's food for thr table. Take them for a walk and let them see the dog work. Let the dog lay at there feet after a long hunt. You can buy all the big name and fancy shotguns yopu want. A dog and a noble pump 16 gauge as all you need. I've still got the noble 16 gauge shotgun I bought for one of my sons when he was 10 years old. My sons started hunting at 5 years. That gun will still go for the price of $50.00. Yes at 5 years old. I also used to raise coonhounds. We could then hunt all the time. No license.. The pheasants were right out my window. Farm in southern Minnesota.Okay, what's wrong with this story? My sons that I hunted all those years with, have grandkids now. The sons I used to break ice with setting decoys, followed a dog after a running pheasant untill the dog jumped off a bank and ended in th Straight river? They're gone. The grandkids play computer games. The sons say they have to go to hockey games( hockey was my best sport in high school)still wanted to see the ducks lifting off the river. Get out there. Take a kid hunting. Enjoy the outdoors. Cool

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 40 Location: Memphis, TN

I think it's a valid point. I hate Wally World. However...

There was a day when a young boy (or his father) could order a gun from the Sears catalog. We can't do that anymore.

There was a day when a teenager could go to the store and buy ammo to shoot rabbits, squirrels, rats, deer, doves, ducks, tin cans, etc. We can't do that anymore.

There was a day when anyone could go to Wal-Mart (and everyone had some access to a Wal-Mart) and buy an 870 or BPS or 390 or 10-22 or A-Bolt. We can't do that anymore.

My locally owned sporting goods store, which is in it's 3rd generation of local, family ownership, may lose its FFL. They had records on every gun they ever sold, but had a few where the records weren't kept exactly right. Probably they'll be OK, but they are at the mercy of the BATFE.

We're fools if we don't see the possibility of they day coming when we have to say "There was a day when I could buy a gun if I wanted to. We can't do that anymore."

This isn't a 16ga Society issue, this is a gun ownership issue. The world is not composed of responsible American gun owners. The world is composed of people who use guns as a means to power and people who fear those other people. Even in America, so many people are ignorant of hunting and shooting. So, I am worried any time there is another barrier erected against easy, cheap gun ownership. You should be worried too, even if your personal collection outclasses anything Wal-Mart ever thought about selling.