16ga.com ~ View topic - Japanese KFC 16ga Westley Richards copy gun

Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 268 Location: Ky

Just picked this one up after selling some more 12s. Interesting gun not very much information on them after looking at a handful and serial numbers it’s built after 1955 anyone have any other information? Seems Japanese 16ga sxs are rare in the US?
I did pattern it today it’s definitely worth having it cleaned up. Original length 13.75in (original kfc plate) but will be nice 14.5 with pad. 28” barrels ic/ full.

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

The lever work is quite different than a Westley Richards:

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Some styling similarities, but, the roots are A&D, with a nod toward Webley. Appears to have a copy of Southgate ejectors installed, but, would need to see more to be sure. You don’t see or hear about quality issues on the Japanese makers, hard to find any information at all.
Looks like a sweet 16 gauge. Enjoy.

Best,
Ted

Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 268 Location: Ky

Thanks Ted, what is this westlley Richards action called ( I know it’s A&D) but not a drop lock like the one you pictured. Did WR even make this one below?

Sorry not arguing with you I know about the WR drop lock but was talking about the A&D WR IN PIC above or did someone else make these for WR since obviously this one in the pic here is, well a dead ringer for the jap action, even copied the saftey?

Joined: 17 Oct 2019 Posts: 455 Location: New Jersey

Wow, that’s a pretty gun.

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

There are guys who can look at the flats and tell you who made an English gun, regardless of who’s name is on it. I’m not that guy. But, a firm like Westley’s would have concentrated on their own action, and farmed out stuff that ended up with their name on it, but, utilized a design that was not their own, or, outside of their expertise.
I’ve seen many English guns with styling cues similar to the Japanese gun you bought, but, I’d wager that most of them came from Birmingham, and were brought in, rather than finished up at places like McNaughton, Westley Richards, Riley’s, etc.
There are side lock guns with the name Westley Richards on them, but, very few were built by Westley Richards. AA Brown built most of them.

The Japanese gunmakers were master copycats, and it was a philosophy that served them well. There was no need to reinvent the wheel as far as gun making was concerned. The external styling cues don’t really change the fact that we are looking at a gun that owes much to the A&D patent for the box lock shotgun, rather than any particular English maker.

It looks like a real sweetheart. A 16 gauge, chopper lump, ejector, box lock. Never have seen a Japanese gun check all those boxes. Let me know if you ever want to sell it.

Best,
Ted

Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 268 Location: Ky

Thanks, Ted I’m always trying to learn a bit. I once owned a book on Birmingham guns that was pretty darn informative but I believe it got left with one of my x’s. I will have to buy that one again.

Joined: 07 Jun 2020 Posts: 224

Looks like a very nice find.

Joined: 12 May 2022 Posts: 12 Location: Texas & New Mexico

Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 268 Location: Ky

Thanks guys! I do love the WR but I’m happy to take this nice little Japanese copy. It’s very close to the AYA 4 deluxe which runs 4-6k which is still lots more than this thing. It shoots well,had it on 5 stand yesterday. It will need just some cosmetics now.
I did find more history with google translation if anyone needs more information on these. Thanks

Joined: 21 Sep 2019 Posts: 31 Location: Lake Taupo, NZ

Yes, please. Some more information would be good.
I have a 16 ga SxS by Kusaga and can find little about.
More data may help in the search for my sweet beastie.

Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 268 Location: Ky

KFC and Miroku are not the same company. Translated a paper/ interview to English that explained the older was KFC they were actually a gunpowder producer first then got into guns. Miroku entered an agreement with KFC to move their new guns( Miroku started with whaling gun and air guns before agreement) for years before Browning picked them up. Also according to Winchester study from 1959 Olin made deal with KFC to produce 101 o/u for them. http://library.centerofthewest.org/digital/collection/p17097coll30/id/6146/

Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 1358 Location: Twin Cities, MN

Here is a Miroku built on an A&D pattern. Looks like a fabulous gun.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/miroku-shotguns/miroku-ble-sxs-12g-28-quot-brileys-full-coverage-engraving-casehardened.cfm?gun_id=101979037

Nice find, Jeff! Hope to see it one of these days. That first Westley Richards gun shown has the Webley patented screw-grip lock-up -- very distinctive. The second one is a regular underbolt A&D. The gun you bought was made in that classic A&D box-lock pattern. Looks like fairly nice hand engraving, too. How much did you pay for that? You don't have to say, mind you. Weight?

Cheers!
Tony

Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 268 Location: Ky

Hello, I’m Jim friends call me Jimmy. This KFC weighs 6lbs 28” barrels and lop 13.75 over factory butt. All in 900.00. Wood is much nicer than I thought, also with 1in leather pad will be about right at 14.5in. Tempted to just use factory plate and a slip on. I haven’t decided to have the action cch, blued or French gray. Originally it had cch action, blued bottom plate and forend iron.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233789370297

https://www.lcsupply.com/products/kick-killer-recoil-pad-lace-up