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Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

Our Black Lab Chester is now in full retirement after an epic hunting career that was nothing less than Hall of Fame status. Although Chester’s paw prints will be impossible to fully fill, a worthy successor is needed soon.

An important change is in order however. Chester was a phenomenal hunting machine (who doesn’t love a big sturdy Lab in the field?), but his house manners and gait were more than a handful for the ladies. His tail alone could topple a lamp. More importantly, he didn’t know his own strength while on a lead in the neighborhood. He is exceedingly polite around women and children but a quick step or two to investigate a fellow walker’s dog would risk straining a limb or worse.

The edict has been issued from HQ: The next dog must be handled effortlessly as possible under ALL circumstances with the least possible effort while on a lead in public. So it would seem we must seriously downsize in the dog department. Now the nub of the issue: What are the smallest breeds that still qualify as legitimate hunters? This is a pass/fail test for me.

Now I realize some might urge me to a trainer. But I don’t want a docile brain-numbed dog sent back to me after a week of full strength shock collar treatment; I’ve already seen too many tragedies in that department. If fact, that’s what I mostly see nowadays. I just want a downsized Chester.

TIA
B.

*Last edited by 16'er on Thu May 04, 2023 5:43 pm; edited 2 times in total*

Boykin

Cocker (there are still some hunting lines to be found)

English springer spaniel

Jagthund

Small Musterlander

Edit:

Brittany

Smaller line of Griffon WH Pointer or Vizla

Joined: 11 Feb 2012 Posts: 68 Location: Olympia WA

Not sure how small your looking for and what kind of hunting you do. I have been real happy with my puddle pointer. 45 lbs or so. He is a great versatile hunter that is at home in the field or blind. Great around the house. He was hell to get to heal but now does it really nice. Other then that a great hunter and women love him.

Smallest I have heard good things about is a boykin.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 1114

My latest shorthair is only 58 pounds but fails on all your other criteria. He's high energy, constantly hunting whenever he's out of the kennel, runs like the wind and I don't trust him without a training collar on. Don't get a shorthair unless you want to fail this test.

Joined: 26 Jun 2020 Posts: 142 Location: Spokane, WA

We have two mid-sized female Labs about 50 lbs each. Great house and field dogs, well mannered and enthusiastic hunters. We also have two French Brittanys, a male and a female, both between 30 -40 lbs. They are as fine a pair of boot hunted upland dogs I have seen in my nearly 78 years. They are fine in the home, they do need to be exercised regularly to manage their energy. Over the years we have been owned by eight Labs, four Brittanys and a Beagle.

As 16'er said - a Boykin.
Not sure about what, where, when you hunt but our boy does the marshes and rice fields of Louisiana, west Kansas pheasants, MS and GA quail all in high style

And that little nubby tail is as good as any fan I have ever had!

You may not want to hear it, but a good trainer is your best alternative (more below).

Folks gave you some breed ideas and I would add an English Setter and Gordon Setter to the list. A Ryman Setter female is around 45 lbs and the Llewellins are usually smaller. Even a 40 lb dog can pull you around if not properly trained.

When a dog is amped up it will take more correction to get their attention. On lead a good method to use is to create a hitch with the leash. Lay the leash along the dogs back and then loop it around their belly. I have never seen a dog that will pull using this technique.

Training a bird dog properly takes months not days. If you want a finished dog it generally takes about three months (not including retrieving). Here in the Midwest a good trainer will charge around $800 to $1,000 per month. I would think the West Coast would be a similar cost.

If a trainer is using high voltage to train a bird dog they are not very good at what they do. You use the least amount of correction necessary to get the desired result. You also need to wait until the pup is old enough to accept training. I have mine trained in two separate stays at the trainer. Once at about 9 months and the next session at about 18 months. At 9 months they cover basic obedience and to accomplish this they start with the dog on the leash. Some pups are not ready at 9 months and a good trainer can tell you in a few minutes if the dog is ready for training.

Good Hunting,
Chicago

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 1114

I've had all my GSP's trained by Ronnie Smith Kennels. It is a three month program as recommended by Chicago. Ronnie and Susanna do use training collars, but only at the lowest settings to cue the dogs for previously learned behaviors. It isn't cheap, but what is nowadays? The results are impressive as the training enhances the bird drive, while making the dogs easier to control. The results have always been good. The picture shows my 2 year old Ronnie Smith trained GSP, Dan taking first place at a field trial against some proven trial winners.

Joined: 24 Jul 2016 Posts: 548 Location: Ohio

You didn't say what you hunt. If it' strictly upland Brittany hands down. Upland and waterfowl= Springer. Wirehairs are great dogs but kinda moody with excess energy,lots of it. I have two and a half. All of these breeds have docked tails,a plus in the house.

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

Thanks all for the feedback. The Boykin looks very intriguing, not seen often out here, Labs and Chessies are common, and big pointers. We hunt everything with the possible exception of geese and turkey. Emphasis on pheasant and grouse, with some waterfowl.

We’ve been spoiled by Chester. Since his first outing at a little over 1 yr old he has hunted like a champ. Voice and hand commands, proper quartering, tracking, retrieving, all purely instinctive first time right out of the blocks with zero training, formal or informal. He understood right from the outset what it was all about. And loved it all, right down to taking a break by a log and sharing a sandwich.

Labs are amazing. But other dogs can hunt too, and that’s what we’re hoping for. I've heard similar stories about spaniels which of course also make wonderful house dogs. And I’ve seen a couple excellent little Viszla hunters but don’t know much about their domestic habits.

B.

Joined: 09 Mar 2016 Posts: 755 Location: Mn.

For more than 30 years now for me the Toller (Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever) they are the smallest of the retrieving breeds.

And for ducks no need for decoys the dog is your decoy. But they only fall for that trick once after you shoot at them LOL.

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

I like Setters, and prefer small female dogs. This is my Son, Chris, my dog, “Louse” and the A5 Chris’s Grandfather bought when he made Sargent in the Marine Corps in 1952.

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My mother had an American Water Spaniel that was smaller, and would do most of the job, but, my preference is to big going bird dogs. Louise is 41 pounds, I can’t have one much bigger than that, as I’m getting too old to get big, old dogs in and out of the truck.

Good luck on your quest.

Best,
Ted