16ga.com ~ View topic - General opinion of webley and scott boxlocks

Hi All
I have spent the day digging in the libary looking at things Webley.The 114XXX serial number still dates the guns manufacture between 1932---35.Their 400 series was discontinued when the 500 series was introduced in 1924 and the 600 series shortly after that.The 600 series had a prefix on all components G6 before the serial number.the 700 series was introduced in 1949 the company changed hands in 1959 and continued making the 700 until their final closure in 1979.

In the 1920s Percy Stanbury purchased a 500 series live pigeon gun serial number 95188 he went on to win almost 50 major clay titles and 18 British titles between 1926 and 1953 ( A most durable gun )

Griffin & Howe claim to teach the Stanbury method of shooting.

If the gun is on the face and every thing looks and feels good .Buy it you can never have to many.There are plenty of 1 oz 2 1/2"---67mm shells on the market today
Here is some thing for you to try
Disassemble the gun leaving the locks cocked ,now place a quarter over the firing pin, place the butt on the floor and pull the trigger.I have 10 1/2 ft ceilings and a quarter bounces of them. Poor old George W has a dent in his ear but I now all the locks work fine on all my double guns and rifles.
references used
British Gunmakers Vol 2 Nigel Brown
Birmingham Gunmakers Douglas Tate
Webley & Scott Catalogue 1922
" " " " " " 1967
Sidelocks & Boxlocks Geoffery Boothroyd
BUY THE GUN YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TO MANY

good shooting
sbs470

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Back to the question of loads to shoot in Brit guns . . . Most of them will be marked with a shot charge (usually 1 oz for 16's, 1 1/8 for 12's--unless it's a waterfowl gun). That does NOT mean--even if the gun has 2 3/4" chambers--that you can shoot any old American factory load of the proper weight. Back when the Brits marked their guns that way, there was far less variety in shotshell loads than we have now, and the Brits also load to lower pressures than we do. So it is not a good idea to take your Scott 700 with 2 3/4" chambers, marked 1 1/8, and shoot screaming, 1450 fps American loads in it. You won't blow the gun to pieces, but you won't like the recoil, the gun's stock won't like the recoil, and the metal will not like the pressure generated by that load. What you're doing is shortening the life of the gun, or at least heading towards a rejointing faster than you need to.

My Army & Navy, Scott-made guns are marked 1 1/8 oz. I shoot most of my pheasants with British 1 1/16 oz loads, designed for those guns. I will reload 1 1/8 oz, at very low pressure (around 7,000 psi) and moderate velocity (1200 fps). Those are OK too, although I only use them in the tighter left barrel, when I think I might need a little more range.

British guns (and many older European guns) have that "game gun" feel we all prize because they were built light--which means they were also built to take relatively light loads. Treat them properly, and you can enjoy them for your lifetime, then pass them down to your kids for another lifetime of shooting.

Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Posts: 46

Thanks you, gentlemen, for all the great information. Please keep it coming! I believe I may be buying a Webley & Scott gamegun. Keep pouring it on- it's my better half that need more convincing! Embarassed

Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Posts: 46

Purchased the W&S yesterday. Upon further inspection, the gun had been refurbished in England- barrels blacked, backbored, and poliched to a mirror, stock refinished, chambers legthened to 2 3/4 and reproofed. It was too tempting...

So after my 10 day wait I will be the proud owner of a beautiful 6.25 lb chuckar gun. Not the 16 ga I had originally looked for, but a nice boxlock just the same. I think I got a bargain! See the gun at ivorybeads.com under english shotguns. It is the Webley and Scott listed for $1850. Enlarge the pics by clicking for your viewing pleasure.

By the way, did I mention that I have my eye on a gorgeous 16 ga sidelock?

Thanks for all the help!

Best Regards,
Kim

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

You mean LACK of shotstring with 1oz loads don't you?
The beauty of the 16 GA is just, that in terms of stringing at least.
Think they referr to that as a "balanced load". Though with a blanced load and gun should have little stringing. Stringing can also be further controlled with powder charge and shot hardness too. Stringing is sometimes a bad thing, and sometimes a good thing, it just depends on the game you are shooting and with what load is required to bring them down. Stringing on a tough bird where the bird is hit with the inital shot and then flies past the shot stringing behind is not a good thing. Stringing can work to your benefit sometimes when you lead game by too much but still have adequate shot remaining in the string to be lethal. Its all timing. I like all of my shot to arrive at once ideally - and that is what happens with a balanced load.
And that is what should happen with a 16GA loaded with 1oz of shot. And then....oh nevermind.

Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

Form your Post and questions, i assume you have not delved into purchasing a Brit double whether boxlock or sidelock. Be aware that you are entering an area fraught with substandard guns for many reasons. Many often let the notion of acquiring a Brit double for cheap get in the way of good judgement. One that has no case and a polished action has been done to cheaply remove signs of corrosion. You MUST have a Smith qualified to work and inspect Brit doubles examine the gun and pronouce it safe to shoot. In the US we have no Proof House as they do in England that can do that for you. Many Brit doubles sold here cannot pass Proof in England and then cannot be sold in England. Spend the money to get a decent Brit Webley of as recent manufacture as you can. They are not a hard to find commodity.
A qualified gunsmith will check chamber length, choke constrictions, action and barrel wall thickness at a minimum.
Without taking all the above precautions, you might as well just throw your money away.
I took a look at your Webley on IvoryBeads. Ask yourself the question, why all the work done on the gun and where? If the US, who did the work, if England, then why Export and sell the gun over here? Has the gun been reproofed at the Brit Proof House and what stamps are on the action and barrels to signify that?
IvoryBeads is a reputable as they come and you have a 3 day inspection period. I would not take delivery until I had all my questions answered and an independant qualified Gunsmith check the gun. It's not just a matter of money but safety as well.
BTW, most dealers hate to have an independant smith check a gun. Ask yourself why?-Dick

when I ran the gunshop, I would go to UK 2-3 times a year to buy guns. A lot of deals could be had when you bought something that had all the guts right, locked up tight, had good wall thicknesses, in proof, etc etc....but may have looked a little "tired" (worn bluing, some marks in the wood, etc.) We (me and my brit gunsmiths) would "overhaul" the guns, then import them here to the states. A lot of dealers still do that. I NEVER passed off a gun as all original, unless of course it was! Most of these guns, and I'm talking vintage 1890-1950, had been reblacked or refinished at least once in their lives, and to do so again was fine and dandy, it is NORMAL to buy a British gun that has had something done to it over the years, no biggie whatsoever, standard fare.... VERY RARE to find an old English shotgun minty and in high original condition made between the years stated above.... why pay all that extra dough for it, when you can buy one that it tight and right, but may have been "loved up" a little? Unless you want gun vault queens, your bargain will likely be a 12 bore 2 1/2" Birmingham made action boxlock non ejector (add $500-1000 for ejection these days) that has been refinished, but is still "spot on" inside and had been shot with the proper loads for which it was built indicated somewheres above by Larry Brown... if the chambers have been lengthened and the gun reproofed OVER THERE, so much the better.... 2 3/4" shells are usually cheaper.

side note: as to condition of these older brit guns, the guys that drank the least sloe gin at the local driven shoot were the ones most likely to rub the gun down and swab the bores before rolling into the sack. You want those guys' guns....

and lastly, the gunsmith is a very different sort over there. Half the time, he'll have a tie on under his apron, and a lot of English shooting chaps (rough and driven) simply take the gun (or guns) in to him either just before or just after the shooting season for a "servicing" of the gun....not unlike us going in for a lube oil filter at Jiffy Lube.... the Brit smith then does whatever's needed (ejection timing, strip and clean action, reblack, make a new screw, redo wood, recut worn checkering, etc etc) It's NORMAL in the UK for guns to have been worked on.... your Webley is just fine.....

.... but you really ought to get a sixteen Very Happy

Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

Your Webley is not just fine if the work has been done over here and the gun not reproofed by the British Proof House.
The Proof house functions to Proof new guns but also by Brit Law to reproof when certain types of modifications are done. The gun is first inspected by individuals that have been doing this exclusively and then if it meets the inspection, Re-Proofed and so stamped. Work done over here is subject to the vagaries of the smith doing it and will contain no Proof mark to assure it will not fail.
It's up to you, but you need to consider why the Brit arrangement exists, its to assure safety.
My only Brit purchase is a 2" box lock made by Skimin & Wood, branded Abercrombie & Fitch and Proofed in 1939. Fully 100% original and about 40% case but 98% otherwise. It has an original 14&1/4" LOP and was made for American shooters. It is shown in the 1939 A&F catalog. I paid dearly for the gun and probably 2X the going rate for a refinished 2" made for a women or child and then eventually marketed over here. I spent a lot of time learning, looking and inspecting Brit guns before the purchase. Brit guns are not the simple purchase.-Dick