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Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 47

All this talk about shotgun stock dimensions has made me pay attention to my current gun stocks. Got them out and measured them. Which has produced an interesting discovery.

With pumps (all model 12 winchesters including my 16 ga m12 darling) with plain barrels and standard dimensions (1.5 DAC, 2.5 DAH, 14.25 LOP)

And SXS's (AH Fox, Win 21, HandH, Alex Martin, Arrieta, Bernadelli, etc.) with 1.5 DAC, 2.0 DAH and 15 LOP and 0 cast measured to front trigger...

I shoot exactly the same, and can swap guns and not hiccup at skeet or shooting flying.

What the devil?...with these differences in stock drop howcome the pumps and the SXS's all work with out any probs?.... (maybe just stop measuring stocks and go hunting?)

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

Interesting Setterchaser (me too by the way)
I'm about to get a Fox restocked and have only my O/U's to use as 'patterns'-have been told by othrs that measurements should be the same but I wondered. Now I'm surely going to get more info. Anybody on top of this?

I'd say you are (unusually) blessed in that, with the same mount, head position, and sight picture, your guns all shoot to the same point of impact. Now "... just stop measuring stocks and go hunting!" Very Happy

OTOH: After messing with lots of guns for a long time, most really good shots can auto-adjust and shoot about anything. Those mortals among us, however, do alot better with a gun that naturally shoots where we're looking Rolling Eyes

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

I would be scared to measure all my guns. I can almost quarantee no two guns will have the same dimensions. I just might do that tonight when I get home, and post the results. Could be scary. Wink

DON'T GO THERE YOU PARKER PUTZ Shocked

-your favorite gun will no doubt have odd dimensions, you'll start thinking about it, start missing, and end up selling it at a give away price (uh...never mind...go ahead...I'll take that LC hammer gun off your hands Very Happy

)

Well if you think about it, the drop to comb on those guns is identical. The drop to heel is close. These dimensions are moderate and typical of most fairly modern field guns. The most important measurement is drop to face and the elevation of the rib to your eye it dictates. I can't see a significant difference in this important measurement being caused by any of your stocks Setterchaser.

However, if the drop to comb on any was nearer to 1-3/4 to comb, and 3 or more inches to heel, I'd bet you would be lifting youf face clear of the comb to see along the rib and over the action. That would have a whole 'nuther effect on your shooting. I doubt it would be a positive one IMO.

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

You musta had that Fox restocked to get only a 2"DAH.
16GAG is right, there iant much difference in any of those guns.
Especially the most important one, DAC. As long as the DAC is the same
you can always get your face pretty much in the same position on the stock
for your preferred sight picture. All those measurements you listed are very modern. So none of your guns seem to apply to the earlier thread on stock dimensions. Therefore, whats your point? For this to be meaningfull you'd have to have SXS's and other guns that varied widely. With some SXS's (especially American Classics) with as much as 3+inches of DAH and more drop at comb than 1.5" the switching back and forth would be much different. I can tell you going from my Browning 30"bbll XS with parallel comb to my Sterlingworth is wildly crazy and not much fun either. Makes me want to restock the SXS.

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

Thanks Jig,GG. I'll proceed with Wenig.

I'm either too dumb to know the difference or am such a bad shot that it doesn't matter, but I've never worried about this stuff much. Ignorance is bliss, you know?

Folks who know a lot more about it than I say 1/4" or so in any dimension won't make much, if any, difference, and that DAH is the least important of all. 3/4" difference in LOP is quite a bit, but if it doesn't seem to make a difference, good on you!

Jig is right: That may be the least DAH I've ever seen on a Fox, but then I've got to be honest: I've never seen one of these 3"+ DAH guns that folks are talking about, either Very Happy

!

Fin

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

1/8" can make a difference of more than 3-6" at 40 yards.

1/8" in what? And in re-reading my post I should clarify: what I meant to say was that most people can adjust rather easily to up tp 1/4" difference between guns.

Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 47

For folks who ask about the AH Fox stock dimensions (1.5 DAC, 2.0 DAH, 15LOP)...yep, had it Wenigfied with new wood. It is a 30" barrel "B" grade (1909 or abouts) very early gun. 12 bore Krupp barrels and very nice for ducks and clays. Wenig did a very fine job and the wood is real purty. (IMO) Put a SW Silvers pad on it and it turned out right classy.

Now to find an AH Fox in 16 ga, #3 barrels, 30" without starched collar stock dimensions.

Jig is right if the that 1/8 of an inch difference is in the vertical measurement from your pupil to the spot on the comb where our cheeks sit. A Higher comb to face puts our eye higher over the barrel, which causes us to shoot higher. It works exactly like raising the rear sight on a rifle. In shotgunning, the on side eye acts like a rear sight. The bead or muzzle acts like a front sight.

The actual point of impact shift also depends on how long or short your barrels are. Shotguns with longer barrels are affected less because the angle formed by the line of sight from your eye to the bead and the rib line is less wide. The same angle fromed by a shorter barrel is wider.

This difference is also one of the reasons longer barrels are more popular for trap shooting and sporting clays. A minor error in gun mount has less effect on where the vertical center of your pattern will hit. In short, longer barrels point more precisely because of the longer sighting plane.

However, for most moderate range shooting, the difference in shift between a 26" barrel and a 30" barrel is not worth worrying about. A solid, well practiced, repeatable mount is much more important than the length of your barrel. If you mounted your gun perfectly every time, there would be no error. So practice and perfect your mount.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Okay, here are the Dates these guns where made, and stock info.
None of these have been restocked or bent to my knowledge.
GUNS
Date: 1879, DAH-2-3/4” DAC-1-3/4”
Date: 1899, DAH-2-3/4” DAC-1-3/4”
Date: 1878, DAH-2-5/8” DAC- 2”
Date: 1893, DAH-2-7/8” DAC-1-3/4”
Date: 1902, DAH-2-1/2” DAC-1-5/8”
Date: 1892, DAH-2/3/4” DAC-1-3/4”
Date: 1980, DAH-2-1/4” DAC 1-3/8” (Parker Repro)
Date: 1919, DAH-2-7/8” DAC-1-1/2”
Date: 1901, DAH-2-1/2” DAC-1-5/8”
Date: 1918, DAH-2-1/4” DAC-1-3/8”
Date: 1901, DAH-2-1/2” DAC-1-1/2”
These are all American made SxS's

Setterchaser...I'd wager the longer length of pull on the Fox puts your eyeball vertically about the same as the shorter lop, bigger drop stock. In a straight stock, the rising comb puts you farther back hence lower with a longer length of pull.