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I just read a post about putting modern loads in a 1930 Sterly because it may crack the stock.

I "sort of" remember someone telling me that they had the insides of the stock, where it meets the receiver reinforced with epoxy. Is this an old wives tale? Or does it have some merit? I'm sure if it was possible, it would not detract from the guns value.

Does any one know here?

Old wives need not respond.

It is never a bad idea to have a good stock fitter give any of these old guns a once over to observe and repair any damage from age or neglect. Another solution is to have a modern stock fitted to your own specs and keep the old one as a spare and to preserve the gun's originality if you ever want to retire it to collector status.

PGG: this is an e-mail from Dr Bill Hambidge about glass bedding. He's a doublegun and LC specialist in N. Carolina and you can see some of his work on my Gunstocks PictureTrail
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=15127852&uid=6511424
Dr Bill Hambidge
252-637-1287 New Bern, NC

"I sort of stumbled into the glass bedding when my "pigeon gun" doubled and hair-line cracks appeared at the back of the lock plates. Thought about it all and knew I had sealed the wood, sooooo I decided that I'd try to strenghten the whole area. Started using just straight acra glas gel then switched to acra glas jel with 1/3 by volume, powdered steel.
On the old guns with cracks and crumbly, oil soaked wood, I first repair the cracks and crumbles with "Krazy" glue then create channels and bore shallow holes in all load bearing sites with a dremel burr. Then I fill the voids with the jel and reassemble the gun minus the top lever spring. Obviously everything is sprayed heavily with release compound. Let it sit for 3-4 hours and disassemble and allow the glas to dry/cure. Coupled with low recoil/pressure loads I have been very satisfied as to durability. I gather Doug Turnbull's folks have been doing something similar and I know Russ Ruppel was a big proponent of using "Krazy" glue to harden the head of the stock."

I've got my 1911 OOE 16g LC with Dan Lammers right now for glass bedding and he previously repaired a tiny crack in my 12g Sterly by glass bedding the head of the stock. LOTS of smiths are doing this now, esp on our 'graceful and elegant' (ie. delicate Rolling Eyes

) LCs.

These guys are excellent stock repair specialists:

307-436-5561
stocks@highstream.net
Robert Fulton
Glenrock, WY
Bob Fulton did the repair on Dave M's Parker hammer gun on PictureTrail

Dennis Smith
The Stock Doctor
Tygh Valley, OR 97063-9797
(541) 483-2182
thestockdr@riflemag.com

And BTW: several guys have recomended Zap CA glue for crack repair
http://www.zapglue.com/index1.html

If wood is cracked, simply filling the crack with any super glue type adhesive usually will not solve the problem. Wood and most advesives expand and contract at different rates. Wood also absorbs moisture. Most dried adhjesives will not. If the gun is exposed to moisture and/or a giuick temperature change, there is very good chance the crack will reopen and could expand.

A proper repair job should be done from the inside surfaces out. The repair should also be reinforced with either inletted wooden cookies or inletted steel wire staples across the crack to prevent its opening and running. Then the surface can be repaired to seal the wood and mask the repair.

I start by cleaning the wood surfaces with alcohol. Then I will use a dremel tool with a wood burr to remove any unrepairable wood from the cracked area and to inlet the good wood behind and across the crack to accept either small hard wood hourglass shaped cookies or one or more box letter C shaped staples fashioned by hand of sufficiently strong steel wire. I then inlay the cookies or the staples so they lay across the crack with enough epoxy to fill the repair to the original interior mortice surfaces.

I then trim the inside repair surface to match any mortice contours, and seal the repair with a very light coating of thinned epoxy applied carefully and neatly. I always leave the repair sealed but unmasked so a prospective customer will see it as verification that the job has been done right. It is on the inside and will not be readily visible.

I then fill the exposed outside area of the crack with any appropriate filler depending on the size and width of the crack. I use zap a gap gel for bigger cracks or thin AC for finer ones and apply it into the crack a bit at a time until the crack is sealed to the outside surface. I then will diguise the crack with stain sticks, alcohol based stain, or waterproof markers and refinish the repaired area to match the original finish.

Most finer cracks can be disguised as grain or figure and are all but undetectable to a trained eye. Some bigger ones can be made very unobvious. Some can't but can still be done very neatly so they don't shock the eye with poor workmenship as well as the crack itself.

This method of repairing and sealing cracks will permanently repair the crack so it will never open again. I learned this technique from a luthier and wooden stringed instrument repair specialist. If done right, the repair will outlast the surrounding wood.

One other point. Do not ever accept the word of a dealer that a crack is properly repaired. Always varify by looking inside the mortice if you can. If not, get a quarantee the dealer will stand behind the repair or adjust the price to pay for a prober job to allow for it later. Another thing to look for is any evidence of heavy impact like gouges, scrapes or big impact dings to a stock or forend. Such evidence may very well point to an impending problem. Some cracks might have been caused by the impact and do not show. This is why I will always either negociate a better price or pass on the gun. Why buy someone else's problem unless you don't have to pay for both the gun and the impending repair job. Negociate or pass on it, don't buy a headache.

this ol' MT wife has somethin to share, my fine man,

I bought a Win 21 two bbl set one time and the stock was loose as a goose wiggly where it met up with the action....sent it to Lefever's (not THE Lefever's that made the guns in early 1900's) when they were still going, somewhere back east, I think they were in NY state?? they did superb repairs on 21's (pre Galazan days), turns out the head of the stock was all oil soaked and rotted out, well, they did indeed glass bed the stock head, you'd never know it from the outside when they were done, and it was tight as a tick ever after....

Duncan

Duncan: that was probably Lefever Arms in Lee Center, NY.

Read Steven Dodd Hughes book and you will see he coats the head of stocks with very light epoxy.

If wood is rotted to the point where the wrist area will not support the stock to the frame, then glass or epoxy bedding is not the simply trhe best way to fix the problem, it is the only way. All the rotted wood must be removed much like rotten tooth is drilled out and filled. For bedding an area with complex morticing, a plaster mold should carefully be made making sure to fill any recessed areas with plasticine putty and coat the inside mortice with petroleum jelly to ensure the plug will release. Carefully sanding the plug will prepare it enough to ensure there will be enough epoxy or glass filler retained to ensure a snug fit to the reciever and a well filled, properly reinforced repair.

If done properly, the mortice will be very stout. However, it is also a good idea to reinforce any thin areas like the stock cheeks abutting the receiver. I use a couple of inletted staples strategically located to prevent future splits. I also reinforce the face of the mortice where it meets the through bolt block or nut to prevent compression damage. This can be done with a couple of small, flat headed brads seated into holes carefully drilled into the wood with epoxy and filed even with the wood surface.

For stocks fastened with vertical cross bolts, It is a good idea to reinforce the old wood with a hard wood dowel or a metal pin in the wrist area. Since you must go in to cut away all the old rotted wood anyway, it is not that much more work and will help that old original stock last for many more years.

Urathane foam is not that strong. I would consider graphite tape or woven cloth and a lightweight resin. you might ask one of the flyrod manufacturers about what might work best.

Double guns and flyrods just go together like ham and eggs. I'll bet at least one of the contacts there also likes classic double guns. Sage, Loomis, St. Croix, etc. I'd start there. Lining the hole with a layer of cloth and resin should work well and should not be too difficult to do.

good idea, thanks.....