16ga.com ~ View topic

Member Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Posts: 46 Location: Illinois

Gentlemen (Fin and PGG), I enjoyed the debate with you on that other site but I too am disenchanted with what that board has become. I've been there, mostly as a lurker, almost since its beginning but more and more I don't care for what it has become. Fortunately there are alternatives for those of us who can still make our points without resorting to name calling and such. Oh, I still disagree with you both. Wink

M.J. Kenzer aka Scatrgunr

Hi Mark. Didn't know you were over here; glad you are. And fair enough. As Dennis Miller says, "That's just my opinion; I COULD be wrong" Wink

!

Fin

Hey, Fin, I wouldn't get too down. Vary few of the boards I frequent are as civil as this one. Most people seem to equate "nameless" and "faceless" to mean "I can be as rude as I want with no social reprisal."

And I think there's something to Jig's post that 16'rs are by nature a more civilized form of beast. Speaking for myself, I grew up hunting upland game and it was drilled into my head by my Dad and his buddies to respect the sport, respect the game and, above all, respect my fellow hunters. The venerable traditions of our pasttime lend themselves to civility by nature.

I must say I have to agree with your observations about some of the yahoos who frequent gun shows, fauning over the assault weapons. Some of these guys give me the creeps, too, and I find myself wondering if this is the best face of gun ownership to offer those who are either ambivilent or downright hostile to the concept of guns in our society.

Finally, I think Jig is right there has been a noticeable change in the way our hunting traditions are perceived and practiced. When I was in high school our football coach would allow a group of us to show up a half-hour late for morning practice during September so we could get out to shoot a few doves, and this was in suburban Southern California. (I got in trouble with him once when he found out I was too injured to practice but not too injured to go hunting Embarassed

) Doubt that happens too often today.

So my entreaty to all of you is this: find a youngster and take him (or her) hunting. I got my nephew, who has grown up in a non-hunting and non-gun owning household, to try it last year, and now he's hooked. He got a couple of buddies from his baseball team to try it, and now they're hooked. If we expose more young people to hunting perhaps we can convince the general public that gun ownership isn't about who has the biggest and baddest asault rifle but is instead about a venerable American tradition rooted deeply in our history and our national consciousness. Sorry, I'll get off my soap-box now. Laughing

I'm going to step in here. I didn't want to. I've been reading all the other forums and blogs for the last three days. For one thing, at a time when all gunowners should be sticking together I cannot believe all the name calling and selfish attitudes posted. The right to beararms does not mention hunting, it mentions the militia and people. That's us, all of us, no matter wether we salivate over an LC Smith 16 gauge or an AR 15. As to the term assault rifle, a rifle cannot assault. That is a term started my the media and the anti-gunners. If you use that term as they would want you to, a flintlock could be considered an assault rifle.So wether you use your guns for hunting and want to preserve that, which I believe in dearly, I also believe if somebody wants an AR 15, wether to target shoot or just hang on his wall, I will keep fighting to presrve his right, no matter what he looks like to me. I can imagine what some people think when they see me looking at a 50 year old gun. Do they say that old guy must be nuts? We must remember that all thes forums are open to the public and what we say can be taken out of context to be used against us.Yes I have my eye on a 16 gauge LC Smith and I will salivate over it and wonder if I can afford to buy it at this time. Thanks for listening. May all our grandchildren enjoy this life as much as we do.[/u]

This link should take you to a Feb. 24 Washington Post article. You might be interested in a liberal newspaper's take on Zumbo, Outdoor Life, the NRA "assault" weapons etc.

Enjoy!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/23/AR2007022301709.html

Jim H.

fin had the pleasure to say hello at a gun show in wichita and know what you are talking about seams like the black guns are everywhere and the gun nuts as I call them are the ones looking at them, please don't get me wrong I love to go to the shows and meet new people with the same intrest
spend the day looking at some guns you don't see very often.
the folks that ran you down do more harm to there cause than good
Dennis

Does this classify me as a gun nut?[im[URL=http://freeshare.us]

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half a nut

Which half ???

bottom

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

No, gotta be the top. Look at how much drop that baby has! Odd looking un-single there, quite the bulge for choke tubes! Is that an early Remington attempt?

kgb

The drop is just right. I have two those Elsies and they work just fine on grouse.By the end of next week I hope to have another one. I quess that makes me a nut.The one on the bottom is also a bird gun.

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

Oldhunter: Here we go again! If the bottom gun is a bird gun IT'S GOTTA HAVE A STRAIGHT GRIP! Laughing

Matt

Only shot it twice. Never really use it. Just thought it was different for a 410.

Joined: 21 Jan 2007 Posts: 23

Guns are tools, most designed for the purpose of killing. Killing is a bad thing to do in the eyes of the general masses that the media continues brainwash.

Once the guns that kill people are eliminated then the guns that kill other living creatures will come under attack as either a threat to humans or simply as a threat to other living things. "Legitimate sporting use" could easily be redefined to exclude any weapon capable of taking life.

I find it hard to defend anyone's right to own an AR-15, just as I find it hard to defend anyone's right to say something ignorant or misinformed, but as Americans just because it is hard to defend another's right, doesn't mean defending the right isn't the right thing to do. The only way to defend your rights, ultimately, is to defend those same rights of others who wish to exercise those rights. When we start defining which rights we are comfortable defending (I will defend your right to own a gun like mine or to say what I would like to say) we will likely find ourselves very alone when our most treasured rights are encroached.

We have to be brave and vigilant and never forgetful that our forefathers fought and died to secure for us a government by the people and for the people and these great men realized that only through our freedoms (which included freedom of speech and the right of the people to defend themselves through force of arms against all forms of tyranny, foreign and domestic) could the people be secure from future tyranny.

If we love our shotguns, we had best love our neighbor's AR-15 or AK-47 (and be thankful for our neighbor).