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sprocket
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:37 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 27 Aug 2006
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Location: Massachusetts

A beautifl gun and not too spendy provided it's tight, etc...

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=99979

no affiliation to seller, just loyalty to the 16 bore.
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fastarget
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:22 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 134

Anyone knows anything about this manufacturer, and whether it is a good price or not...............

There are lots of older 16s out there, but what is good and what is bad???
Maybe an old Forgeron will turn up...
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:30 am  Reply with quote
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MF was the largest maker of shotguns in France. Still in business, but no longer making guns. Some people really like the Ideals. Issues I see with that one: it has short chambers, and the stock has quite a bit of drop.

For those of you that have not handled an Ideal before, the little lever behind the trigger guard is the opening lever. And the little button beside the triggers is the safety--it's on either side, so ambidextrous. I had one, and one feature I did not like was that my safety slid back rather than forward for "off", which is the opposite of what we're used to.
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Battle
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:18 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Versailles

Larry..........you should read the whole post. The gun has 2.75 chambers and the drop looks like 2.25". Too much drop would be 3". The safety sometime is a issue. My Ideal is a older model with the lunnettes. I have no problem with my safety. Wink
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Leighton
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:03 am  Reply with quote
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I have a 28 ga Ideal(chamber lined from a 24 ga). It has about a 2 1/4 drop also. Fast and deadly. My only worry is a mechanical break. I had mine put back on face a couple of months ago and that is not a problem with the new TIG welding techniques. It also has the sling in the buttstock.

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Leighton
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:14 am  Reply with quote
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Hopefully I am posting a couple of pictures of my Ideal

http://www.hunt101.com/img/480421.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/img/480420.jpg

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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:25 pm  Reply with quote
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Battle wrote:
Larry..........you should read the whole post. The gun has 2.75 chambers and the drop looks like 2.25". Too much drop would be 3". The safety sometime is a issue. My Ideal is a older model with the lunnettes. I have no problem with my safety. Wink


Battle--Look again. Measurements listed are 1 3/4-2 3/4. 3/4 is .75 in my part of the country, not .25. Smile As for the chambers, they were originally 2 1/2". You can see the 65 on the barrel flats. Makes no difference that they've been lengthened. Taking out steel does not make a gun stronger, nor--if it was designed for lower pressure 2 1/2" shells--make it suitable for higher pressure 2 3/4" shells.
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Battle
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:28 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 27 Oct 2005
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Location: Versailles

65........i did miss that Larry! Embarassed
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:50 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

Feeding 2 3/4 inch cartridges to an Ideal won't likely hurt anything, save a guy's shoulder.

That's a tough gun, with a high level of proof.
Best,
Ted
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britgun
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:15 pm  Reply with quote
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I agree, French guns are really really sturdy, at least the ones I have had, and they are light, so they will dish out recoil, but I don't seem to mind mine so much..... I've shot 100 clays with it ( 1 oz. factory loads) and didn't feel beat up...maybe it's the way it's stocked, maybe it's the decelerator pad, maybe it's both.... anyhow, I like them a lot..... also, mine was 65 mm and I opened it to 70 mm (2 3/4").... no problemo...(prob-blammo?), what does that one weigh, I don't think it said....mine is only 5 pounds....

It was FULL/FULL, I opened it to skeet and IC, then I put Brileys in it, which was dumb in hindsight, because I run CYL and IC in there all the time, rarely ever change chokes out.....

Anyhow, I think if anybody ever sees a nice light one in decent shape and a good price, you will really really love it if you snatch it up, then tweak it to suit you.... they aren't as cheap as they used to be (nothin' is) but they still offer tremendous value....

brit

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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:42 am  Reply with quote
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I couldn't spot the proofmarks on the barrels of that Ideal, and it may well be more than single proof--although even the French single proof was fairly stout, and a lot of them were double or triple proof. I fed a whole bunch of high brass pheasant loads to a pre-war Sauer 16 on which I'd lengthened the chambers, without knowing any better, and it didn't hurt the gun any--hunted with it for more than 20 years. And an Ideal is probably as tough as a Sauer. But you may end up shortening the shooting life of a gun by feeding it higher pressure loads than those for which it was designed. Might go off face on you sooner, etc. Recoil, of course, is in the shoulder (and the mind!) of the shooter. After having learned about reloading low pressure 7/8 oz 16ga loads, whenever I shoot the American "promo" 1 oz loads these days, I can really tell the difference. OK for hunting, but I don't want to shoot targets with them any more in a light 16.
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Ted Schefelbein
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:51 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 1480
Location: Mpls, MN.

You MAY shorten the guns shooting life, but, if you do, you CAN get it fixed. However, after running bore gauges down hundreds of French guns, I bet MAY is going to most likely be PROBABLY NOT.

Even so, off the face is a cheap fix. Used French guns come pretty cheap, usually.

I think Larry brings up a good point about recoil, but, it isn't that big a deal on a hunting gun. And, even if Larry and I added up all the time we have left to spend in the field, we couldn't wear out an Ideal by shooting 2 3/4" promo loads in it during that time.

Sad truth.


Somebody buy this gun and enjoy it.
Best,
Ted
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britgun
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:30 am  Reply with quote
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Ted Schefelbein wrote:
You MAY shorten the guns shooting life, but, if you do, you CAN get it fixed. However, after running bore gauges down hundreds of French guns, I bet MAY is going to most likely be PROBABLY NOT.

Even so, off the face is a cheap fix. Used French guns come pretty cheap, usually.

I think Larry brings up a good point about recoil, but, it isn't that big a deal on a hunting gun. And, even if Larry and I added up all the time we have left to spend in the field, we couldn't wear out an Ideal by shooting 2 3/4" promo loads in it during that time.

Sad truth.


Somebody buy this gun and enjoy it.
Best,
Ted





Amen, ted....

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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:16 pm  Reply with quote
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I've certainly seen loose French guns . . . but then a lot of them seem to have suffered more abuse than, for example, most Brit guns. And you can fix "off face" with some shim stock, although that's a sort of shade tree mechanic repair. Cheapest permanent fix I know of is TIG welding, and I think Keith Kearcher's low end quote for that is now running $150.

Although I hunt a lot, my guns see far more use breaking clay birds--mainly because I like to shoot, and the off season is a lot longer than the "on" season.
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