16ga.com ~ View topic

Member Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 58

I was looking at their website today and they make a nice looking gun. I was wondering if anybody had any experience with these guns and what does their low end feild gun run for price? Any help would be great.

Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 268 Location: Meridian, ID

I have an Aurum Light 16ga and I know there is at least one other board member that has one as well. I really haven't come across another 16ga O/U that I would take over it. And I'd say the barrels on mine are bent just about right. Razz

They have one model, the Omnium, that is under $2k but I don't know if it is available in 16ga. The Aurum runs $2,350.00 and is now made on a 16ga frame. They also have a model with false sideplates, the Artemis, that is a few hundred dollars more. And, of course you can spend more on guns with upgraded wood, etc.

If you really want to know what's available I'd call Rizzini USA. Neither their website nor Rizzini's own website have been updated in at least two or three years.

Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Illinois

SIGArms was running a B Rizzini gun as their shotgun for sometime and you can still find some on closeout in the $1500 range. Very solid, well made guns. I don't think they were made for SIGArms in 16 gauge though.

If you find a TR20, TR30 or TR40, you'd have a solid gun at a great price.

For competition clays, try the TT-25 and there is always the LL Bean New Englander model too.

Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 268 Location: Meridian, ID

I think there are enough alternatives to keep them all honest. That works for us. However, the price for a B. rizzini 16 without choke tubes is considerably higher than a basic 16 ga. Citori with choke tubes. I went on their web site yesterday to find out what that policy is and where to send a gun if it has a problem. The "push here" icon for the warranty reveals a blank screen. I don't think they have a central facility in the states yet. So I'm guessing Rizzini relies on a network of privately run gunsmiths and service facilities to do their warranty work. This set up never works well, especially in the long run.

The FAIR I Rizzini web site lists their 16 ga dimensions and weight as being the same as the 12 ga. So I'm led to think theirs is built on a 12 ga frame which puts it nearer to 7 pounds. Then there is that warranty issue again. FAIR guns have no service/repair facility here in the States. They rely on a network of gunsmiths/shops. That list is always changing. Parts are not evenly distributed either. Warranty work is sketchy at best, because the policy is interpreted differently by each private repair facility owner. The folks doing the work want to get paid for it naturally, to make sure they are compensated fairly for their time and labor. You can't blame them. I think this is a poor set up for obvious reasons.

I recently bought a pair of small bore CZ Ringneck SxS guns. One of the butt pads split on its own. CZ has a central facility. I had a replacement pad in 7 days, at no charge. CZ has been selling these guns for about 2 years. If they can establish a warranty facility that quickly, why can't either of the Rizzini companies? Concidering the cost of the Rizzini guns, I think they need to. There are other issues with their guns I will not bother getting into again.

I really like the small frame B. Rizzini 28 and .410 guns. They are definately lighter and better proportioned than the Citori models. However, until the warranty/repair issue is backed up better, I will wait and see. I'm not about to sink over 2k into a gun without a clearly stated and backed up warranty I can rely on for at least a couple of years. I'd also like to think parts and service will be there in a decade or so down the road.

We have enough Spanish and Italian orphans on used gun racks everywhere. This is the main reason these brands do not have a solid aftermarket trade value. Nobody who knows gun trading well trusts the brand name to hold its value, because of the lack of support these guns have had in the past. Again, I think there is a better way to do business. Why do you think the Browning line holds its value year after year, decade upon decade? Simple. Folks trust them. Browning has earned that trust.

Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Illinois

I went to Rizzini's site and clicked on the warranty page and it brought me here: http://www.rizziniusa.com/warranty.htm

Right in the middle of the page it states:
Rizzini-USA Tel: 1-610-344-7730, Fax: 1-610-344-7741
1140 McDermott Drive, Suite 103, West Chester, PA 19380

I know they have a limited lifetime warranty on the hardware of their guns and 90 days on the wood. Their repair facility is also right here in the good ole U.S.A. in West Chester, PA.

Have you had a warranty issue that wasn't resolved to your satisfaction? I'd be interested to hear what problems you ran into.

I also think we're not comparing apples to apples when a comparison between a foreign firearm vs. Browning is made. JMB was an American citizen and some might say, an American icon. Much like Henry Ford. For more than a 100 years Browning has been producing quality firearms and has seeded a solid reputation on JMB's vision and philosophy. The same could be said about Colt, S&W and Remington (up to a point). The foreign jobbers just don't have that luxury so its hard for them to build that reputation. I do think Beretta has done a good job and companies like Ceaser Guerini are up and coming. Only time will tell but I think Rizzini is here to stay.

In terms of warranty service, Browning is not without flaw. I've heard of several instances where Browning repair has taken 3, 6, 9 and even 12 months for a repair. In fact, I've heard that more often than I've heard of them turning around a repair quickly and done right. I think that's why places like Art's Gun Shop and Midwest Gun Works are so popular. They offer the same quality but better service.

Price wise, I do think you get a great gun in the Citori. It really is hard to beat. If you want the fancy engraving, case color and upgraded wood though, you have to pay for it. I think thats where on Browning its an upgrade and on a Rizzini, it is their starting point. Hard to argue though with the success of the Citori. Damn things just keep going and going.

[quote="SShooterZ"]I went to Rizzini's site and clicked on the warranty page and it brought me here: http://www.rizziniusa.com/warranty.htmRight in the middle of the page it states:
Rizzini-USA Tel: 1-610-344-7730, Fax: 1-610-344-7741
1140 McDermott Drive, Suite 103, West Chester, PA 19380

I know they have a limited lifetime warranty on the hardware of their guns and 90 days on the wood. Their repair facility is also right here in the good ole U.S.A. in West Chester, PA.

Have you had a warranty issue that wasn't resolved to your satisfaction? I'd be interested to hear what problems you ran into.

I also think we're not comparing apples to apples when a comparison between a foreign firearm vs. Browning is made. JMB was an American citizen and some might say, an American icon. Much like Henry Ford. For more than a 100 years Browning has been producing quality firearms and has seeded a solid reputation on JMB's vision and philosophy. The same could be said about Colt, S&W and Remington (up to a point). The foreign jobbers just don't have that luxury so its hard for them to build that reputation. I do think Beretta has done a good job and companies like Ceaser Guerini are up and coming. Only time will tell but I think Rizzini is here to stay.

In terms of warranty service, Browning is not without flaw. I've heard of several instances where Browning repair has taken 3, 6, 9 and even 12 months for a repair. In fact, I've heard that more often than I've heard of them turning around a repair quickly and done right. I think that's why places like Art's Gun Shop and Midwest Gun Works are so popular. They offer the same quality but better service.

Price wise, I do think you get a great gun in the Citori. It really is hard to beat. If you want the fancy engraving, case color and upgraded wood though, you have to pay for it. I think thats where on Browning its an upgrade and on a Rizzini, it is their starting point. Hard to argue though with the success of the Citori. Damn things just keep going and going.[/quote]
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This Web sit you've posted is exactly the web site I went to. I clicked on the yellow View Warranty icon in the middle of the page repeatedly. Nothing comes up. The site is not responding to view requsets. It has not been responding for the last several days I've tried to get info. I've heard its been out od service for a while. this does not alleviate my distrust of this company one bit.

The Rizzini name is hardly new to the States. We have two Rizzini companies here now, plus Guerini is also connected by family ties to the Rizzini name. The similarities between the various three brand guns is striking. Various import firms and Italian gun business entities have been bandying the Rizzini name around for a long time now. Their past quality and warranty service has been a sorry affair. They have appeared and disappeared, reorganized and reappeared more than once. The guns they leave behind when they disappear go wanting for parts. Any with legitamate warranty issues left behind go uncovered. This is what gun traders and shop owners mean when they refer to "orphans."

The last time I looked, Miroku in Japan is making the Citori and always has. Browning North America in an importer. The do not make guns. They are just a brand name. However, from my own experience from over several decades of buying their products, they have tremendous integrity--about the best in the industry IMO.

The Miroku company has been making O/U shotguns for over 50 years. Their products faced a lot of consumer distrust and post-war prejudice. Some of their production lots have had problems including badly assembled and aligned barrels. Their willingness to adapt their methods and improve their product has made the Citori the excellent gun it is today.

Every warranty issue I've ever had with any Citori I've ever owned as well as those of folks I know well, have been fixed or the gun has been replaced to my or their satisfaction. In one case, I received full compensation for one model that they could not replace. I sent them the bill for the one I found to replace it, and they cut me a check to cover it and my postage. You can't argue with warranty coverage like that. Browning North America, the importer, backs up their warranty to the hilt as far as I'm concerned. It is this kind of service that puts the pressure on every other gun company or importer to match it. Browning stands as an excellent example of what we should expect for quality, price, and service.

I hope Rizzini is here to stay. I also hope my concerns about the issues I and many orthers have raised in the past and here now are addressed and dealt with in a way that earns my trust. So far, they have a ways to go and a shaky past to overcome. When Rizzini approaches Browning on all three counts of price, aftermarket value, and integrity, I'll consider buying one. Until then, I'll wait and see or perhaps cherry pick a clean used one at a very good used market price. At least this way, I'll be getting what I've bargained for, and the risk I assume will be on my own shoulders.

Until I see a solid track record of honest warranty service, and a reliable repair service that looks like it is here to stay, I will wait and see. I wish both Rizzini companies luck and Guerini too. However, I know that it is not really a matter of luck, but simple integrity. We shall see.

Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Illinois

Quote, SShooterz "Some of their past guns, from what I gather were Huglu/Turkish and complete junk. That I can see being a problem. Specifically, I'm referring to the B. Rizzini guns. I don't have too much knowledge or experience with the older or the F.A.I.R. guns."
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The past Rizzini guns I'm refering to all say "Made in Italy" right on them and bear Italian maker and proof marks. they were not Turkish by a longshot. they were made in Italy, or someone was misrepresenting the truth when they imported and sold them here. I know of two local shop owners who got pounded financially too. They got stuck with new in the box guns with no warranty and no recourse. They both had to sell the guns at fire sale prices to get rid of them. This was back in the mid 1990's.

I took a chance on my two small bore CZ Ringneck guns, because I was offered an incredably good deal, and both have perfect barrels. I looked carefully--very carefully. I got both guns combined for less than 2/3rds what one small framed Rizzini model would have cost. As far as reliablity and accuracy, s far, so good. We shall see. I will not speak for the whole line or its future either. I might very well own a pair of soon to be orphans, but it did not cost me a total price of over $5000 minimum to buy in. I can always sell them cheap and lose far less if things don't turn out well. Rifght now, i have a five year warranty in place. i hope I don't have to use it, butI do know CZ has a very good track record and a well respected name to protect, so I doubt things will be different with these Turkish made guns. We shall see.

I appreciate the fact that you are happy with your Rizzini guns. Its reports like this we listen to. The more we here from unbiased owners, the more we will begin to trust the name once more.

However, I will always caution anyone to carefully look over any new or used gun they are thinking about buying, especially down the barrels. That is what points the shot string on its way. A lot of small problems can be fixed. Bad barrels are not a small thing. I've seen too many bad ones on the earlier Turkish guns, and many lesser known Italian guns to not be wary. Yu can bet your boots Ill keep on both advocting caution, and following my own advice. Thanks for your input.

That RizziniUSA warranty link must have a gremlin. But here is all the warranty text for you 16ga guy:

LIFETIME WARRANTY
Rizzini USA warrants that this firearm was manufactured free of defects in materials and workmanship. Rizzini USA will repair or replace broken or malfunctioning components, or the firearm, with a comparable firearm, at the sole discretion of Rizzini USA, for the lifetime of the original purchaser excepting:
1. Normal wear associated with use.
2. Breakage of stock/forend not associated with the actual manufacture of the stock or forend wood.
3. Rizzini USA does not warrant the firearm against cosmetic damage or blemishes which should be apparent to the retail purchaser at the time of purchase. It is the responsibility of the retail purchaser to inspect the product for cosmetic damages or blemishes prior to purchase. Cosmetic damage or blemishes are defined as mis- matched stock and forend wood or finish, scratches, dents, flaws in metal or wood finish etc.
4. Although the firearm is equipped with adjustments for the trigger assembly, these adjustments have been performed at the factory to the correct specifications of Rizzini. If further adjustments are required, the firearm must be delivered to Rizzini USA for authorized service. Unauthorized tampering of the trigger assembly can result in a hazardous condition and will void warranty.
The Manufacturer and/or its official dealers assume no responsibility for product malfunction or for physical injury or property damage resulting in whole or in part from criminal or negligent use of this firearm, improper or careless handling, unauthorized modifications, use of defective, improper, hand-loaded, reloaded or remanufactured ammunition, users abuse or neglect of the firearm, or other influences bey9nd the manufacturer’s direct and immediate control. This warranty is void if unauthorized repair or alteration has been performed.
If warranty service or non warranty service should be necessary or desired, contact Rizzini USA for instruction for return to Rizzini USA for service.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Oh boy . . . here we go again, on Browning vs Rizzini.

All the FAIR 16's, to my knowledge, are built on true 16ga frames. If you want to check out the weights on these guns, go to the Cabela's website, Gun Library, European shotguns. Most run in the low 6# range, averaging around 6 1/4, with 28" barrels and 5 choke tubes standard. (The only ones that show on the list are the higher grade 900's and 702's. They've sold most of their 400's and 500's--pretty much the same price as standard Citoris--but there are probably some still in inventory, just not listed. Call one of the GL's and have them check their computer list if you're interested.) I've owned a couple of them, handled several others, and they are indeed all in that 6 1/4# range--which is lighter than any Citori 16 (especially with 28" barrels) except the Lightning Feather.

When New England Arms went out of business and much of its inventory went to Dewing's in FL, Cabela's bought up dozens (maybe hundreds) of the FAIRs and have been selling them off at pretty attractive prices. They're cutting prices on quite a few of the guns they have left. If you buy a gun from Cabela's and you have a problem, they will either get it fixed for you or refund your money. And somehow I doubt Cabela's is any more likely to go out of business than is Browning.

I seem to recall reading that someone else is now importing FAIRs, slightly different models. Someone else may remember additional details.

Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Illinois

I'm a bit new around here so I was wondering why there was such a strong aversion to the Rizzini vs. the Citori. Now it makes a little more sense. Wink

Anytime the question about Rizzini guns is raised, I'm going to advise caution and careful inspection before purchasing any of them Larry. I do this based on the past performance and products of the folks who have done business under the Rizzini name. Until I'm convinced the products of either of the two Rizzini companies aren't just more soon to be Italian orphans, I will continue to advise caution. I don't care who is selling them including Cabela's. Not everything Cabela's sells is well made. They push a lot of junk, just like any other large marketer. So its still buyer beware.

Thanks for posting the warranty onefunzr2. I read it carefully. The warranty clearly states that any retail purchaser is responsible for giving any B Rizzini gun a careful inspection before buying. This means that if a buyer purchases a new gun with an obvious flaw, they own it--period. I've already advised this very same thing. This alone should raise a warning flag.

3. Rizzini USA does not warrant the firearm against cosmetic damage or blemishes which should be apparent to the retail purchaser at the time of purchase. It is the responsibility of the retail purchaser to inspect the product for cosmetic damages or blemishes prior to purchase. Cosmetic damage or blemishes are defined as mis- matched stock and forend wood or finish, scratches, dents, flaws in metal or wood finish etc.

The wording of this warranty leaves me cold. It gives way too much latitude for Rizzini to refuse warranty service for any ovious flaw in wood or metal. This could be interpreted a number of ways. It is a poorly defined policy and challangable under any number of manufacturing liability and consumer protection statutes from state to state. But who would want to go there. Not me.

The wording also would do little to entice me to stock these guns for retail sale if I were a shop owner. What is the outcome if a shop receives any guns with obvious flaws? Does the shop owner eat them? What about the less experienced buyer who may not know much about these issues? Does he get screwed? What do you think is going to happen if someone buys one, and later discovers the gun is flawed? Who do you think is going to take the brunt of it? I've seen this situation before. It did not end well for the shop owners or their customers. then. Why should it be any different now. It is very possible these new Rizzini companies are just the same old wolves in a different sheep skin.

In essence. this warranty leaves the buyer with two choices. He can trust the company's good will, or he can take them to court if his state stautes support the suit. Based on past performance, I'd say the first is risky at best. The second will probably be a pyric victory due to court costs and attorney's fees. More Italian orphans? I think maybe so. We shall see.

I'll let others buy these guns and learn from their experience. In the mean time, I'll continue to do business with folks who have earned my trust as well as the trust of many others. I'm done with this Rizzini business for the present. However, if in the future someone asks, I will now refer them to this posting. I don't think it will serve us well to rehash it anymore.

Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 268 Location: Meridian, ID

If a cosmetic flaw is serious enough that you would have a warranty issue, the gun never should have hit the sale floor. When a dealer receives a gun they certainly should inspect it before it goes on the sale rack. If there is something wrong with it cosmetically that's when it should be returned to the manufacturer/Wholesaler.

Anybody can nitpick about what a perfect finish on a new gun should be.