16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Illinois

Scatrgunr - Thank you for posting that graph. I've seen similar and they were peaking a bit earlier, but that could have been due to the scale of the graph.

I'm sorry to hear that you suffered physical injury, I wouldn't wish that on anyone!

What did you find in terms of the pressure of Bismuth loads. Do they typically run high?

Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 76 Location: north Texas

Scatrgunr,

Thanks for posting that photo and most educational pressure curve! I had a nearly identical rupture occur on an Ithaca 20ga double 14 years ago - same right barrel and same longitudinal split in the vicinity of the end of the forend wood. Only I was luckier than you - I only lost the last 1/4" of my left index finger and you can hardly tell it now.

I had owned the gun for 5 or 6 years and had shot thousands and thousands of AA hull reloads and factory Winchester 7/8 oz. Upland loads in it. Then one day, I decided to try another ammo brand and the first shot did the trick. I've always suspected that the real culprit was a pressure curve just like the one you posted above, but I'm usually shouted down by the "experts" that it was certainly a barrel obstruction. We'll never know for sure either way, but I am such a fanatic about peering down the bores, I doubt that it was an obstruction.

I don't know about you, but I still have a recurring flinch problem that originated with my "incident".

xtm

That picture convinced me. Anybody want a couple of LC Smith's cheap?

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Guest

When Bismuth reloading came down the road several years ago, Balistic Reloading did stress to get better performance out of your Bismuth loads that the use of buffering material amongst the shot to reduce the brittleness of the shot. They had a very large warning that just by adding this buffering, the chamber pressure would go up significantly and shooting buffered bismuth loads should only occur with modern shot guns that could handle these higher pressures. I would get one of your remaining bismuth shot (provided it's from the same box) and cut it open to see if buffering material was placed in it.....

Food for thought

Member Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 13

DO NOT Follow advice from "keyboard cowboys" who post dangerous things on the internet regarding loads and safe use of older guns:
16GG;
"I too tend to limit pressures on hinge guns for everyday use ammo like skeet and trap fodder. For hunting ammo, I'd not worry unless you are shootintg a lot of it all the time."
"it should be quite safe with any domestic or foreign factory ammo produced today. Most guns made in the 1930's were made of ordenance proofed steel just like today's guns are. They were also proofed with some very stout proof loads similar to today's proof loads."
I like many others left this board due to this posters egotistical know it all attitude about everthing imaginable.At some point someone was going to get hurt following one of his posts,I was amde aware of it though postings on other boards (this thread is a prefect example of what not to do when reading "experts" posts that are far from it). Beware !
signing off once again

Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Illinois

nhdblfan - Because I don't know, is there a rule of thumb when it comes to older guns in terms of a specific year range and what their acceptable pressures might be?

I know damascus guns offer an inherent risk in terms of what pressures they can withstand but I was unaware and a bit ignorant of older steel barrels being dangerous also.

Thanks for your input.

SSZ: If I might step in here, L.C. Smith started using Sir Joseph Whitworth and Krupp steel barrels on the high grade guns as early as 1895. The year of production is less important than the quality of the maker and gun. With the exception of the over-built Long Range Water Fowl gun designed for 3" 1 3/8 oz loads in the early 20s (and similar Fox and Parker guns), I consider any pre-WW II classic American SxS as a 'low pressure' gun, but more for the recoil effect on the wood than the integrity of the brls. I use Federal Wing Shok 1 1/8 oz at 1400 fps boomers (which are no longer available Confused

) in my 12g Sterly pheasant whacker but have had the action tightened and the stock Acraglas reinforced.

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Guest

I'm going through one of my reloading manuals from a reputable reloading company on 16 gauge receipes. In almost all of their receipes, when you introduce buffering material, the related powder charge is reduces by .5 grain. They also mentioned with other companies use of their own brand "X" buffering material that it has been tested to increase chamber pressure by an additional 2000 lps.