16ga.com ~ View topic - Has anyone seen the new Cesar Guerini 16 ga???

Guest

We're just feeding the troll, boys.

All of us here, and all the posters on shotgunworld.com, who have had good experiences with B.Riz, I.Riz and CG guns must have had "the exception" to the rule. Personally, I've had or have five "exceptions" to the rule, or six if I count my brother's gun. Brian has or has had nine "exceptions". And the one guy Brian tracked down who needed Rizzini USA service and they came through for him nicely is, again, "the exception" to the rule."

See the trend? Our resident Browning cheerleader/Rizzini detractor is not going to be swayed by any first-hand reports from Rizzini owners and users that do not bolster his own argument. He's seen, he's read, he's heard, ... yada, yada. And when several others have had an entirely different experiences -- even with multiple guns -- it must be that our noses are bent out of joint, our personal pride has been harmed, we should be writing to the Rizzini companies about a problem we've never experienced, we're threatening him or trying to muzzle him, we have a financial stake in the argument, we should have bought a Perazzi, etc., etc.

To quote MASH's Col. Potter, "Horse Hockey!"

16gg wrote:
"I went through this with Browning ten years ago. At first, they were very resistant. However, they were willing to look at the evidence and the POI test sheets. They had the gun tested themselves. They were honest with me once they found out the barrels on that gun were flawed. The entire effort took nearly a year. In the mean time, I was waiting for my gun to be corrected or replaced. They did finally, 18 monthes later."

16gg admits he had a problem first hand with POI on a browning O/U, AND it took a year and a half to get this taken care of through warranty service. I think we all ought to abandon this company which would produce any such gun and let it out of the factory...

I'm sure I'll get accused of taking this out of context or some other reason why this situation doesn't seem contradictory. I usually avoid these threads because of the malicious nature they quickly gain. I learned early on this board that 16gg's point of view was vastly differnt than mine, and I try to avoid him as much as possible. I think he has some valid points and a lot of knowledge, just lacks tolerance for other's opinions. I think this may because he is primary a competative target shooter and I am a recreational shooter/shotgunner. Bottom line is I find his standards often don't apply to my situation.

16'er

Guest

Ya, I went through all of this with 16GG and the wads. Same old story.....he feels threatened by products that might steal a little thunder from his own favorites. He seems to be hardwired to respond in that way.

Qouting me out of context does strengthen your argument MGF. The exception to the rule I directly refered to is my 1961 Matador. Last time I looked, the gun was made by AyA, not Rizzini. nor was it made with the same technique, nor in the same time period.

Niether have I ever claimed all Rizzini guns of either make have bad barrels, but you know this too. So overstating or exaggerating what I have said does not help you either. It appears that all you are now doing is trying to ridicle the message to obfuscate the truth.

Based on the thin sample of Rizzini guns of either make I have seen, I do say that there are just too many bad barrels on them for me to applaude the quality assurance practices of either company. If only 10% of the guns had bad barrels on them, that would still be far too many IMO. I'm just estimating here, but I'm fairly certain I've seen a higher percentage than that.

It is not a simple matter of numbers with something as important as straight, properly regulated barrels on a double gun selling for in excess of 2K. At this level, all of the guns should have good, just about perfect barrels. They certainly do not. I've seen too many, and now, reports of the same problem are coming out in this discussion on this small web site. We do not know how many have been bought by folks who do not have a clue why they are having accuracy problems.

There was a time I did not know how important good barrels are on a double gun. I was niave and believed they all were made right if they cost a lot. After I had learned to shoot well enough to know I was actually shooting well enough, and could tell that something other than my performance was at fault, I began to learn the real cause of those mystery misses. The Citori trap gun I'd just bought had a bad bottom barrel. From that point on, my learning curve in this matter was excelerated to say the least.

So you folks who are Rizzini fans can discount what I'm reporting, or you can ridicule it and me for stating it. You can name call, exagerate, or ignore it. This does not matter at all to me. I've reported what I've seen, and what I know. I've done so honestly and as factually As I can. I've done enough at this point. Let those who are considering buying a Rizzini take the information and see for themselves. Those are the folks who do matter in the long run. Me, I'll wait and see. If the two companies prove to be honest and reliable ones, I might even buy a gun or two myself. Like I said, We shall see.

Guest

16GG, you weren't quoted of context. In fact, you weren't quoted at all. Those are paraphrases. And every vein I touched upon is present in this very thread, not to mention nearly every thread on the Rizzini shotguns that you've weighed in on. Ten percent? Other than your own guestimation, where does that come number come from?

Again, you employ one standard for yourself and your experiences, and another for others. Brian, with whom I've never communicated except on these threads, and I have owned or extensively shot fifteen different Rizzini-family guns. We know Larry's had a few thrrough his ever-trading hands. We know there are several other guys on this board with good experiences with Rizzini guns and that some of them own more than one. There are two different Guerini boards, a Rizzini board and a Verona board on shotgunworld.com ... yet you're the only guy reporting he's seen a large number of misaligned barrels on Rizzini doubleguns.

Hey, knock yourself out. Be the prophet unrecognized in his own land, the sage, the martyr ... whatever floats your boat. It remains that a heck of lot of us just aren't seeing the same math that you are reporting. Maybe you've got a belief or a conviction, but you don't have any data to prove it out and, in the meantime, have resorted to name calling like "lacquered trash." Have a good time marching to your own drummer ... just don't expect everyone else to fall in step.

16GG,

Is it safe to assume that you would not want one, if, we can get Cesar Guerini to make up a special run???

Hey, how come Italy lost the war??? They dropped ziti instead of shells!!

Maybe Ronzini is putting ziti on the end of their receivers???
(Note... Ronzoni is a New York pasta manufacturing company.)

Joined: 06 Jun 2007 Posts: 10

Wow! I am embarrassed for 16 ga guy.
An abundantly persistent, internet ex-spurt whose train of thought
has become as scattered as an armload of ping pong balls during a dead run.
I have never seen anyone on any of these boards who knew so little about a topic and was so completely unaware of that fact.
It's a good thing he doesn't use his real name! That would be really embarassing!
I fear that our friend, 16 ga. guy may have given quite a few more than just myself, this impression.
That's all I'll say (I hope). I intend to put my day to better use.

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

Unfortunately CG is not going to produce a 16ga gun anytime soon.
I'd love to see them produce a nice SxS in that ga. I'd have one ordered before they came in.

But if you read the threads on Shotgun World, you'll see it's not happening any time soon.

Guest

Aw, crap. Well, I might as well go ahead and get that Verona 692 in .410 I've been eyeballing.

Edited to add: And another pooperoo: CDNN is sold out on that one.

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

MGF,

Just call Stokes Classics Arms and order a Merkel. Very Happy

Best dang laser guided, feather seeking, bird destroying, pheasant killin machine made, by far.

Even better than those Sissytories. A LOT.

These posts are the reason I don't visit this forum much anymore. I get a PM once in awhile so I log in. Ask about one make of shotgun and get into that crooked barrel thing again. I don't think I'd even mention the two new O/U's I bought this year. Yes they both have straight barrels, are far as I can tell anyway. I knock down the birds when I shoot them and that's all that counts to me. Anyway this trying to prove I know more and better then you do sounds silly. Then we get into the name calling. Reminds me of my two sons when they were growing up. I didn't think that this society was started for one person to put down what another person owns. We're all supposed to be grownups"I would think". Makes a person like the new 20 gauge O/U I bought. I did buy a 16 gauge also. In fact they are from two of the biggest shotgun manufacturers, just not Browning. That's enough from me. I'm going over to my favorite forum, where nobody calls people names and everybody seems to enjoy each other. Thanks for listening.

George Phyle
Remer, Mn. the grouse capital of the world

Guest