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| < 16ga. Guns ~ 19th century hunting and shooting literature |
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 Posted:
Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:05 am
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Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: Lancaster county, Pa
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| I shoot old SxS with bent barrels and lots of drop its more fun and more sporting. Its not wrong its my decision. Point is everybody has an opinion and preference. Its rude and counter productive to tell everybody there wrong and you are the only one who knows anything. The truth is you own alot of Citori's are you trying to raise the resale price for personal gain? We appreciate your Knowledge and what you bring to this site.Just tone down the attacks on other peoples opinions and feelings. We are all here because we love the 16 gauge gun and can share loading data and ammo sources and all things 16 gauge. The site has recently taken on a bitter tone and to be honest 16gg you start 90% of it. Again your insight and knowledge is appreciated just tone it down and give an opinion when asked or when it is important. Sometimes you sound like Bill Clinton(it depends what is "is"). Your to smat for all this and its a waste of time. Again just my opinion don't want to start a fight(I'm sure you shoot straighter than me).Draw your self a pint and take a deep breath, your better than all this. Lets get back to some productive and enlightning subjects. |
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| Posted:
Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:04 am
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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| MDNWATR |
Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:15 am
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 265
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16gg,
really you give yourself way too much credit. I am not upset, I really couldn't careless what you think. I would never follow your advice on a gun purchase, you are far to close minded for my liking.
What does upset me is when you try to present opinions as fact when you have no real world experience in the product. |
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| Posted:
Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:00 am
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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| MDNWATR |
Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:13 pm
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16GG, who or what are all these commercial interests you keep talking about? You've "called me out" using that one at least twice, and I haven't got a single thing to do with the industry, nor have I even posted a gun for sale on the Internet. Sort of looks like you're creating straw men to bolster your arguments, which would be among the things you claim not to do, nor will you abide. 
You're right about one thing: Good guns do prove themselves. That's why I I'm putting put the time in to strip and refinish the stock on my FAIR 900. That gun killed a lot of pheasants this past season. It's getting hand-rubbed oil and, so far, it's looking great. Original finish wasn't bad, but he gun shoots so well for me, I want it to look the way I want it to look and better show off its handsome walnut.
By the way, Brian didn't say he's going anywhere ... and I know I'm not. You ignore the point of Brian's posts, and Larry's posts and my posts on this "debate." We have a load of experience with the Rizzini family guns, and you do not. You are back to raising straw men and name calling. It seems you keep both your Citoris and your cherished "expertise" in a sealed vault where nothing ever gets in.
Disclaimer: I did get about $1,300 in a trade-in on a well cared for Sig/B. Riz TR20U that I shot for six years and and originally paid $1,800 for. Not too bad a deal, if I do say so. And the object of the trade-in? A 20 gauge Guerini Magnus. "Overdecororated, or tricked out piece of crap"? Hardly. It's smashing doubles like god's own hammer. |
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| Posted:
Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:19 pm
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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| MDNWATR |
Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 pm
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 265
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| "Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" - Frank Zappa |
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| Posted:
Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:21 pm
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Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 2172
Location: Kansas High Plains
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| Someone needs to break the chain, agree to disagree, and back slowly away. The next guy we DON'T hear from is the bigger man. OK? |
_________________
I feel a warm spot in my heart when I meet a man whiling away an afternoon...and stopping to chat with him, hear the sleek lines of his double gun whisper "Sixteen." - Gene Hill, Shotgunner's Notebook |
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| Posted:
Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:13 am
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| 16gaugeguy wrote: |
MGF, it just amazes me how much you read into what I've posted, and the degree to which you take everything like a personal attack or like its directed at you. You also let your frustration lead you to comeletely misinterpret what I've posted. Also, you jump in where it really does not concern you, like my rather disdainful retort to Brian. It was not directed at you. It has nothing to do with you. I'm just letting him know, I really do not care what he thinks of my opinion. he has shown a penchant for personally insulting folks he gets upset with. I try not to get this upset. Its rather foolish if you think about it. I'm not going to take it personal. I do not care. So relax. It's not about you.
I said before I'm glad you have got some good guns. I'm happy you are happy with yours--really. No kidding here. I also do not care if you are selling them or investing in them or whatever. It does not matter one whit to me. I asked only once about any possible financial involvement. I did so to try and understand where you were coming from and why you feel as intensely as you do. That is all. Period. I fully understand you are just a consumer like me. If you are happy with them, and you really beleive they are good guns, then why let my beleifs shake your faith? It does not make that much sense.
Further, I do not know how far back your experience with the Rizzini name goes, nor again, do I really care. You obviously are very pleased with them. So why does it matter so much to you personally what I think? If you feel that I'm wrong in being leery of the name, then just let it go. you won't overcome my mistrust by hammering at it. Only time, and my own observances will do this. Frankly, its really my own choice and my own business. If that mistrust is to change it will come from within.
Understand that I also will always advocate exercizing care when buying any gun. The years have taught me this with any brand of gun. There are stinkers out there from every company, not just Rizzini. The more I see, the more this gets confirmed. Buyer beware is simple, wise advice.
But regardless of all this, and I've said this before, why not just skip over my posts and you will not be upset. you do not have to read them. Trust me. I don't read everyone's either. Some just ain't up my alley. Some, I disagree with but it does not really seem that important. Some folks I like to kid around with. I would not dare do it with you. I don't think you'd get it or appreciate it. So for your own peace of mind and well being man, just let it go. It really is not about you.
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(1) Forgive me, but my memory's pretty good and the search function bears it out. Here are portions of two exchanges between you and me, the first from September 2006 and the second from this month:
16GG: "If you have any business interests in the FAIR/Rizzini guns and this matter of consistant quality, dependability, and service, perhaps you should address the importers and the companies who make them. That is where the problem really lies. Good luck if you do."
MGF: "I have no biz interests in any gun or gun-related products. I'm just a salaried middle-manager who grinds it out 55 hours a week. I, too, am just a consumer."
16GG: "I do not know if yiou have more at stake in this matter than your personal pride. If you are in the business of selling these guns, then it behooves you even more so to take the matter up with that company. I think we are done here. I know I am."
MGF: "One more time: The only money I've got in the gun industry is that which I've spent on guns, shells, bags, etc."
(2) Re getting into things that do not concern me and your retort to Brian: It's a discussion board. People jump in and out as they wish. That's the nature of discussion boards. If you feel a need to go one-on-one with Brian without comments from anyone else, there's the PM function.
(3) As I've written before, and in this thread, my experience with B. Rizzini goes back to 2001, when I picked up a Sig TR20U in 20 ga. It's the gun I traded the other day on a CG Magnus, also in 20 ga. I've also repeatedly described my experiences with five other Rizzinis or Guerinis. I don't mind a good debate or even a jab, but since you do like to so freely expend words, you might at least pretend you're paying attention to what the other guy has said.
(3) Re upset, relax, personal attack, etc: I'm not upset. I'm happy as a clam, other an being dead tired after 11 hours at work. Still, I did get a terrific annual eval yesterday. There are pheasant in the freezer. Lately, the clays are breaking mid-air at a pretty decent rate with every gun I've been shouldering. My old pickup's running well. Upset? The only thing truly nagging at me these days is the price of .410 shells.
(4) Intense? Nah. This is not intense for me. This is playing around at a keyboard.
(5) My consternation with you stems from the casual dismissal of other people's experiences with guns they bought over the counter and have spent 100s of range and field hours and thousands of shells with. Personally, sir, after a lot of reading of your posts, I believe you tend to style yourself the consumer advocate and those with whom you disagree as illogical, emotional, inexperienced, having some hidden motive/financial stake, etc. And I do admit I find the "lacquered trash" and "overdecororated, or tricked out piece of crap" remarks unworthy of both the guns under discussion and our group.
(6) You and I are in agreement that we don't give a fat rat's posterior about each other's opinions, although I did think you were on the money the other day about love & patience with dogs.
(7) Fin is right. I'll concede to you the "bigger man" honors, but I felt a need to make myself clear. I agree, though, that the air on the board is becoming foul, and I apologize to the members for my part in that. |
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:01 am
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 If I wasn't so tired after just getting home from work (0245 with only 3 hours sleep since my PRIOR watch) I would be rolling on the floor laughing right now!
I stayed away from this site for about three weeks due to the last big drivelous diatribe by this guy, and here I sign on and the second post I peruse is just the same old s*#% !!!!! (Yes, I just coined the phrase "drivelous diatribe" to apply to Mr. Ego's ramblings).
I met Brian once over a year ago and learned more during a casual 20 minute conversation about shotguns than I've ever learned via the voluminous mountain of BS that comes from this guy.....and it was EGOLESS.....something not understood by Mr. 16.
There, I feel better now and realize that I need another 3-week break! Carry on Brian, but this guy's never going to understand. He reminds me of the blustering blowhard wizard in the "Wizard of Oz", with about the same result when you pull back the curtain. |
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:45 am
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Member
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 743
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Guy, you're the only one who "twisted" your "basic message", at least in this thread. You started with a comparison between the British gun trade of over 100 years ago and the modern gun trade. I showed you, very clearly, how bad an analogy that is. When you start with a twisted message, you ain't gonna get things straight--any more than if you start with twisted barrels. So look in the mirror when it comes to twisted messages, at least in this case.
As for having shot "older" Rizzinis, can you tell us WHICH Rizzinis they were? FAIR? B. Rizzini? Fratelli Rizzini? Zoli-Rizzini? Based on your past posts, you probably don't know. |
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:13 pm
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Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 5
Location: VT
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| 16gaugeguy wrote: |
I do not know about that Brian. There was a time I knew nothing. I've learned a few things since then. One of them is that crooked, twisted, or curved shotgun barrels tend not to shoot straight and straight ones do. It took awhile, but I did learn it.
So tell us, what do you know about shotguns? Enlighten me. You obviously think I need the help. I'm open to truth and common sense. However, if its just guilded over Madison Avenue style hype and malarky, I hear and read enough of that anywhere there is advertising--especially in field sport and gun mags. They are chock full of it.
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16GG,
I have been wondering if you have any friends? It appears that you alienate everyone on this site. As far as you bragging about you shooting exploits, I have personally seen you shoot. In trap you are just average. As a 5-stand shooter, you are less than a novice. I felt it was time members of this society heard from someone who has seen you shoot at the local South Shore gun clubs. Please stop dreaming about your shooting, you will never be any more than a 50% shooter. If you only knew how the members of Holbrook, Pembroke, Sharon, and Walpole speak of you, I am sure you would never show your face at those clubs again. |
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:03 pm
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pgoudy....He just hasn't TOLD them how great he is yet....give him time!
Thank you for your post......illuminating. OK, now I'm going back on my 3-week break. |
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:49 pm
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Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 98
Location: Illinois
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| pgoudy wrote: |
16GG,
I have been wondering if you have any friends? It appears that you alienate everyone on this site. As far as you bragging about you shooting exploits, I have personally seen you shoot. In trap you are just average. As a 5-stand shooter, you are less than a novice. I felt it was time members of this society heard from someone who has seen you shoot at the local South Shore gun clubs. Please stop dreaming about your shooting, you will never be any more than a 50% shooter. If you only knew how the members of Holbrook, Pembroke, Sharon, and Walpole speak of you, I am sure you would never show your face at those clubs again.
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Must be crooked barrels.  
Thanks for your post. If someone needed a helping of humble pie, it was 16GG.  |
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| Posted:
Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:11 pm
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Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 759
Location: Somewhere in the Socialist State of Minnesota
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