16ga.com ~ View topic - Citori Lightning 16ga magically materialized.....

Ah Montana. Where men are men and sheep are nervous- so 'tis said

We'll see about the vertical vs. horizontal crisis that rageth in thine breast oh pilgim. Me thinks when the first bird thy sighteth down those death dealing upright pipes comes plummeting to earth dead as the stones on yonder ground, thine eyes will be opened, thy pulse will quicken, and thy heart will rejoiceth. "Yea verily, this gun is mighty." thy will announce in loud and firm voice. Your old antiques with sideways barrels will you cast onto the funeral pyre of the used gun market and ye shall banish them from your sight henceforth and forever. Or something like that anyway. Laughing

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

Yap, you opened up a can o' worms with this one Brit.
You will find that gun to a be a very respectable shooter more than likely.
Thank God you didnt get a superlight, or your sxs's wouldve taken the ol back seat for a while. But the standard field grade lightning will give you a taste of what the Browning stack pipes can do so dependably.

Plus, you can throw it around like a step child, knowing it can be easily repaired or even replaced - no biggy. Call it a "Truck Gun" throw it around and go do some high volume skyrat shooting. Now that you have a citori, go load up some #6 - 1 1/8 to 1 1/4oz nickel or coppers to about 1500FPS. Just remember, you don't have to lead on crossing shots quite as much with those ultra fast loads - or wear any kind of protective diaper on your shoulder as you may with those ultra light sxs's you love. Go out and shoot some man loads in that citori it'll be a blast (literally). I remember the first time I shot some of those 1500+ fps copper plates on a rooster hunt a couple years ago, I had the best day of my life, couldnt miss even when I thought I would because of hurried, behind the bird crossers. Nope, behind the bird is relative in that case and those birds dropped stone dead. It really is amazing when shooting super fast loads how much lead is altered.
Great purchase!!

er, thanks guys, we'll see, I have the IC tubes in both bbls, bet they never come out...... can't wait to shoot it....

brit

And the verdict is.....?

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Duncan, usually IC is just fine for skeet. However, you may want to run a bore and choke gauge down the barrels just to check. I remember getting some strange results with 16ga Browning choke tubes. Seems to me IC was tighter than expected and cylinder had more constriction in it than skeet. I don't have a Citori and all the tubes to check any more, but I have a friend who does. I'll check with him to see if my memory is correct.

This is true with many of the blued series of choke tubes. The newest stainless line have been redesigned and the constrictions are more in line with the actual bores.

The 16 ga Citori bores measure about .668 to .670 on average. This is 17mm, the bore size Miroku chose for their barrels. This was done to match the older Belgian A-5 bore size. However, when Browning brought out the gauge in 1988, they had the choke tubes made up on the original Winchester choke tube dimensions, which are designed for the original .660-.664" diameter Winchester barrels.

The bad news is the older blue steel tubes are too tight. The good news is you can have them adjusted to whatever you want. I have had several of the full choke tubes reamed to custom measurements easily and cheaply enough. They have proven invaluable for bigger shot and longer range work.

Also, by going to one size more open than designated, the problem is pretty well solved. The Cylinder choke tubes are very useful for skeet and close in work. The Skeet tubes work for IC. The IC tubes work for quarter choke which is a very useful and under appreciated constriction in America, especially for charges of bigger pellets like #4 and #5 shot at somewhat modest velocites and pressures to distances of 35 yards or so. The Modified chokes are fairly good as is. Then, buy a few of the older full tubes and have them opened about .010" to .015" for a useful improved modified to full choke. Be sure to save one or two of the old full chokes for turkey hunting and recreational trap targets. They are murder on longer targets with fine shot like 7.5 or #8 shot.

By turning Browning's oversight to your advantage, you can fill some of the gaps we usually see in the average choke tube selections offered with new guns. Also, locating these used tubes is not all that difficult. I often find them at bargain prices in the used choke tube boxes at larger gun shops and at gun shows. I can usually buy them for under $10 dollars. I've gotten many at $5 a tube. I've even had some given to me just for the asking. Considering the cost per used tube, having them reamed to custom constrictions is not at all expensive. works for me.

...thanks, guys....I'll look for some used SKT and CYL tubes.....

Duncan

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Had my friend run his bore and choke gauge into his Citori White Lightning. Bore diameter is .668. Choke constrictions are:
IC--007
Skeet--010
Mod--013
Full--043

It was skeet I was thinking of that's the oddball, tighter than IC. Seems to me cylinder had some constriction too, but my buddy does not have a cyl tube.

My GrI Citori has bores that measure .669" & .670". The Browning chokes that came with the gun measure, based on a bore of .669",
I/C - .007"
Mod- .014"
Full - . 046" Shocked

Very close to what Larry found on his friends gun.

Had the full opened to .024", I/Mod.

Bought a cylinder and 2 skeet chokes from Briley in black anodized to match the factory finish choke tubes but the cylinder had .004" restriction and the skeet chokes measured .009". When I called Briley about this I was informed that they ream their 16ga Invector chokes based on a barrel diameter of .665". I sent them back and they reamed the CYL out to .669" and the SKT tubes to .665" and returned them to me at NO charge. So beware, if you buy Briley chokes for your Citori they will be tighter than the industry standard constriction by .004-.005", but they will ream them to whatever you need at no additional cost when you order them. Great people.

I have heard the new Citoris have stainless steel choke tubes made by Briley instead of black tubes by Miroku. Has anyone measured any of these yet?

Dennis

I'm not certain about this, but I believe all standard invector tubes have never been made in Japan. They have been made stateside. I think the same folks who made the last of the Winchester flush tubes also made the early invectors from 1987 on until Briley took it over recently.

This aftermarket approach has been problematic at times. The early Invector Plus 12 ga tubes are too open for the nominal bore size of .740. The original flush full choke tubes are barely improved modified by my calculations. However, the new extended versions are far tighter in the modified and up tubes. The original full tubes were excellent for trap singles, and second target doubles, but horrible for longer handicap targets. Once folks who shot Citori and the BT-99 and BT-100 guns realized this oversight, they bought super full tubes and started crushing the back fence targets as well.

Ironically enough, the original Winchester tubes had a knurled extention that protruded about 1/4 inch beyond the muzzle of the gun. Some gun writers felt they were ugly. We got sold on flush tubes because they are more traditional looking. Now, folks are recognizing the advantages of extended, knurled tubes and want them. I wonder when we will finally realize when we are ahead of the game and let a good idea stand. Nothing is better than 20/20 hindsight to realize the value of a good idea.

I always thought the original Winchester choke tubes were practical. They were a bit longer, were easy to change, and protected the muzzle of the gun. I still have some for my 12 ga and 20 gauge standard Invector guns. The Wnchester tubes are about .004" bigger in diameter in the 12 ga and about the same in the 20. A bit of manipulating the choice adusts the difference nicely and also fills in some of the gaps too. Works for me.

I do not know if the old Winchester 16 ga tubes are interchangable with the Browning Invectors in the 16. I do not own any. I know the 28 ga. Winchester tubes are not usable in the 28 ga. Invector seats. Winchester never sold .410 tubes. All their little bores had fixed chokes.