16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 181 Location: Great White North

I recently found an ad for a Browning Citori in 16ga. that is still NIB. The seller claims it's been untouched since he bought it new in 1987. I haven't called yet, but I'm wondering if this was a standard catalog gun back then, as opposed to a limited run gun? And were they only field grade citori's, or were higher grades available? I'm just trying to get some info before I call so I have a clue as to what he's offering.

1987 was the year Browning answered the market's growing request for the reintroduction of the Sweet 16 A5 autoloader. Originals were fetching outlandish prices on the used market. They and some of the older Remington 1148 16 autoloaders were the only 16 ga autos built on a small frame. All the others were the usual 16 on 12 ga frame guns that were thrown on the market to appease and to sell 16 ga ammo. Most were over 7-1/2 pounds if wearing the now popular ribbed barrel.

Browning saw a chance for a coue. As an afterthought, they also offered the Citori 16 gauge in the catalog. Both guns were to be limited runs that would be offered until the original lot sold out. If demand was high enough, the A5 would be retained or brought back periodically.

Well, things did not work out as Browning had hoped. Much of the gun press of the day had already been predicting the eminent death of the 16ga shotgun. They snubbed the Japanese made A5 Sweet Sixteen, because it was not made in Belgium, it was not finished exactly like the originals, and because, with its ribbed barrel with choke tubes, it was a tad more muzzle heavy than any of the plain barreled originals. Lack of interest among the gun press did not help spark interest in the gun buying public so sales were slow for the A5. The higher prices did not help either.

Browning also failed to smartly advertise the 16 ga Citori to boot. So the first three years worth of 16 ga guns sold like "cold cakes". Browning ended up dumping the last of the Citori 16 ga. guns as specials and did not profit nearly as much as expected. They decided to not have anymore made and the guns were dropped from the catlog after 1990. I actually passed up a deal for two 1989 guns new in box for $700 each in 1994. Talk about 20/20 hind sight. that was a real boneheaded lack of movement on my part in retrospect.

Time has proven the Miroku made A5 Sweet Sixteen was unfairly handled by the gun press. Now the Japanese made models actually bring higher prices on the used market than the originals. They are better machined and are more reliable if that is possible for any A5. Plus, folks began to recognize the advantage of choke tubes. The nice wood on many of them is also a plus.

Because Browning had failed to market the Citori guns well, they too languished on the special and used racks for much of the first half of the last decade. Browning did not originally elaborate on the guns' finer points like being a 16 built on a modified 20 ga frame and weighing far less than the average 16 ga shotgun being made then. the 16 ga Citori was even lighter than a comparable 20 ga Citori. They even stupidly misidentified the first year's issue as standard hunting models when the guns were actually Lightnings. It seems Browning marketing strategy was more focused on the A5. The 16 ga Citori was more of a trial balloon. when the new A5 fizzled, they lost interest in the Citori as well.

Most folks simply assumed the Citori 16 ga guns were just another 16 built on a 12 ga frame, yawned, and bought a 20. I was one of them. Had I been paying closer attention, I'd have been shooting one far earlier than I finally did and for a lot less money to boot. Its a good thing for me I woke up before the prices started really climbing like a rocket after 2000.

What saved the 16 ga Citori from the dust bin of gun history was the folks who actually had bought the guns and shot them. Most of the smarter ones soon realized just how unique and special these particular 16 ga Lightnings were. They carried far easier than a comparable 12 ga upland gun. they were hell for stout and could digest loads that would wreck an autoloader's funtioning. They hit far harder and at further ranges that any 20 if fed the right loads. They were about the lightest and most effective O/U 16 on the planet, and were far stronger and better built than any of their contemporary doubles vertical or sideways for the purpose of wacking pheasant at 12 ga ranges with similar loads. Word spread amongst the more savvy upland hunters and folks began snapping them up at bargain basement prices. The buzz was now on. Bill Hicks Inc. saw a good thing, contacted Browning, and the rest, as they say, is history.

The 1987 guns are all well made. Machining, fit and finish is excellent for the most part. The wood on the average Grade I pre-2000 is better than that on many Grade I Citori models of today. Most have good barrels. However, check them carefully, because they were made by the pre- 1994 method and design before Miroku totally overcame the problems of high heat brazing. Some might have slightly out of kilter barrels. I've never seen any in 16 gauge, but I've seen some other pre-1994 guns with problematic barrels and have even owned a few.

New or used, if price is not out of line with the present market, I'd say you would do well to buy the gun. I own several pre-1994 guns. They all handle and shoot as well as any of the newer ones and sport some pleasing wood to boot. Mine all work for me. I was just lucky enough to be a tad ahead of the curve when I bought mine. ... and no, mine are not for sale, nor will the asking price reflect the old prices if and when they do go up for grabs. I only stay dumb for just so long. Wink

Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 181 Location: Great White North

Now THAT'S what I call a reply 16gaugeguy! You just gave me more information than I could ever find on my own. And very well written too! I actually read it twice I was so impressed with the info. Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question.

Don't let Larry Brown and the rest of the Rizzini Weenies know you liked it. They'll be all over you for loading up my ego...feeding the troll... patting the gorilla... or whatever. Laughing

Who's Larry Brown?

Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 219 Location: Sussex Wisconsin

OK...not to hijack this thread but exactly what do you look for and how do you look for it on pre 94 citori barrels........Iv always thought that the newer barrels were the ones that were not quite up to par....Iv seen some mid and late 90s barrels where the seem at the barrel/chamber junction actualy showed a hairline gap ....Id never seen that on the earlier barrels..

Rizzini Weenies eh....I HEARD THAT!

Member Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 972 Location: Keller,TX

My brothers, I actually owned and shot, for two years, a 1997 vintage Browning Citori 16 bore Upland Special. It had 24" barrels, Glossy finish, Invector chokes, and straight grip. I even bought a cyl tube for those Brush Shots at my native Texas bobs. Over pointers, it was the berries.
Unfortunately, I had to relinquish my ownership due to financial pressures. If you have a chance to purchase the aforementioned Citori 16 bore, do not hesitate, haggle, or hallucinate.Buy it now.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the barrel thing.There is no real way of finding out POI until you mount and shoot it more than once or twice.Barrels are important to be sure, but we somtimes get hung up on a problem that is,quite frankly, not a problem. I shot sporting clays with a brother 16'ER last month who had a worn Ithaca NID that had such ripply barrels it reminded me of the gulf coast surf! He ran the station, and burned my butt on the next! Embarassed

On a different note, one reason I like this board and post on it so often is that while we all have our own viewpoints and our own prejudices, we can discuss and banter back and forth without name calling and attacking the man.Believe me, this goes on far too often on other boards. If you do it, in my eyes, you only lessen your arguments. Heck, I've done it myself! Embarassed

I'm not proud of it, and I'm trying to break myself of it. My brothers we're better than that. Wink

Member Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 972 Location: Keller,TX

Amen. brother Ralph! Wink

You know the right way to treat a tool! Wink

Member Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 972 Location: Keller,TX

Brother 16 guage guy, you have piqued my interest about barrel straightness and concentricity. What is your method for measuring concentricity? Do you read the rings inside the barrels individually? How do you measure the bend?

How do you determine the bend if the barrels are tapered from the chambered breech to the muzzles in SxS? You said that in the smaller bores, the curves are some times turned in during the brazing/soldering process. How much can this affect my pattern?

I'm thinking of getting an older SXS in 20 or 28, and am concerned that if my barrels are crooked, my pattern percentage will suffer. Crying or Very sad

Would you tell me how much they might be affected? Am I worried about nothing?

Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 98 Location: Illinois

Looks like all the Browning Barrels aren't tested correctly.

Brand new Browning XT with patterning problems here: http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/sthread.cfm?threadid=119057

Looks like it took about a month but Browning resolved the issue to the owner's satisfaction.

Just a note that regardless of the manufacturer, barrel problems can happen anywhere.

Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 10 Location: Arizona

In 1988 a local gunshop was closing , browsing the rack of marked down guns I spied a Browning A5 always liked those guns and was really surprised to find it was a Sweet 16 one of the new Japenese guns with invector chokes and marked down to $395 brand new but the store was closing, guy threw in a case of 500 Concord shelle. I have shot that gun at everything from ducks to all clay games, I have chased quail all over the Arizona desert with that gun. The local gun clubs get a laugh out of me shooting skeet with old humpy. Yesterday one of guys in the club mentioned he had a NIB Citori 16 ga that he bought in 1990 and did I want to trade for something. A deal was worked out and I noe have a brand 16 ga Lightening citori, what a sweetheart,I called my gunsmith buddy and he put a pachmayer decelerator pad while I chatted with his wife. It has been a great weekend.