16ga.com ~ View topic

....speaking of which, you gotta check out the French gun on the "guns wanted or for sale" page.... my oh my, there is your gun!!!

Joined: 13 May 2007 Posts: 4

I have been looking for years now for the best gun for myself. I started shooting sxs Stevens 16 when I was 12 We had one gun and passed it around I have one of every action and also most gauges 16 is the one I hope to stay with, the gun is still out there I started buying guns to shoot Stevens, Ithaca, Fox, LC Smith, my favorite so far J.P. Sauer & Sohn Don't be afraid to buy a gun that has been shot , many double are worn and don't look the best but no one wants them because of there looks. So buy one or two, most used doubles can be bought for $300 to $600 and shoot fine You know you want a 16 now barrel length 28" most common Chokes not to worry mod and full is common and gunsmith can open them to your shooting needs Triggers, don't like two, single after markets can be installed, If you buy right you can sell without any lost funds. Don,t get in a hurry I made that mistake bought a really nice to find out it looked great but I didn't like to shoot it . If you find one you like there is always a better one out there for more money. Hunting is what we do enjoy it.

Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 265

I guess after reading all these post one has to decide where his heart lies. Even though 16gg and I have disagreed in the past seem that now I find my post was very close to his on the subject.

If part of the fun for the gun buyer is to find that unique old German or LC gun that is functional and has shootable stock measurments then by all means hunt that gun down and have fun in the process.

The problem I see with with older guns is one has to be well educated in doubles to find a good example that won't require a king's ransom. Often times these old LC Smiths and Guild guns are either in poor shape or they are poor quality. These old Knockabouts were not prized guns they were the 870's of their time. Sure great old guns can be found but eventually the expense of ownership is required in order to maintain the old girl.

In contrast the modern O/U offers a gun that will function flawlessly for years. The chance of breaking a Rizzini or a Browning O/U is slim at best. If the B gun was to break replacement parts are easy to come by and often times the repair is covered under warrenty.

I am at a point in my life where I am tired of the old Parkers, LC Smiths and Foxes (although I think Fox is the best of the lot) require me to package the gun, pay hundreds of dollars for shipping and insurance only to again pay 400-600 dollars for repair to a qualified gunsmith. I want to simplify my shotgun life.

If you want a more simple gun to own I suggest the Browning Citori or the Rizzini Aurum Classic.

Best,
Brian

Brian, not to disagree, but based on my own expearences(lack of issues with old guns going back for repair) and whats being reported here on the board(fast/tjc problems with new merks doubleing and the guy with the citori issues) I'm not sure that such a blanket statement can be made. Also depending on the price point there may be no real options. the new sub 1k stuff(xcepting the dehann/cz which seem to have fewer problems) appears to be no more reliable than the old "clunkers" as well as, to my hand being very clubby. At the end of the day buyer beware and do your homework.

I have 7 old sxs and have never had a repair issue. I have a Citori that I've had misfires with and a Merkel that had to be tubed to correct POI problem. So I agree with huns. The craftsmanship and quality of a 1900 thru 1950's gun is better than you can buy today. The materials used today are better but attention to detail is lacking. One other point any good gunsmith can make most replacment parts needed.

....agreed, PP and Hun... I have had very little mechanical or operational trouble with the scads of vintage stuff I've seen come and go over the years, regardless of contintent of mmanufacture. The money I've put into mine has always been to bend it, reblue it, choke work, lengthen LOP with a pad, etc etc,etc, to get it suitable and shootable for me... the innards have rarely needed any help, except maybe a good soaking to lift years of residue.

I must say that old Charlie does fantastic work at very reasonable prices, for those who fear the long distance gunsmith and terribly inflated charges...his turnaround is also excellent.... he is a sleeper, give him a try. I have no financial interest whatsoever in my old gunshop, I sold out for cash on 2002, relinquishing all ownership and association at that time.... I wish he'd change the name!! I simply write this to you all because I have found a great place to get great work done fast.... he doesn't reblue or brown bbls. Call him first, tell him the problem, and he'll give it to you straight and either tell you to send it over, or will refer you on down the street....

For the UPLAND hunter, the side by side is the way to go, lightweight, reliable, well-made.... there is simply no other design as perfect for bird hunting behind a good dog, where there's several miles between visits to the truck. The next best thing is a light pump, in my opinion.....

Also for me, the wide sight plane facilitates the instinctive swing and shoot style of unconcious gunning far better than a single "rifle barrel" type design... this is all after years and years of shooting and carrying everything that's out there. I realize that many many accomplished gunners find the opposite to be true... but this is where I've ended up, and it just works so much better for me.....

I have pumps, an auto, a couple O/U's.....but if it's meat, confidence, and ease of carrying I want, I take a side by side down off the rack, usually one in particular, a French speaking little tart that about 20 years ago, captured my shooting heart.... Very Happy

SXS doubles feel right to me in all gauges except maybe the 10 gauges are a bit big (but probably ALL action types in 10 gauge feel big). 12 gauge O/Us feel somewhat blocky to me, I haven't handled a 16 O/U. O/Us feel good to me in 20 and 28 gauges. I believe they all will shoot equally well if they feel right and shoot where you look though. My main quibble with the over/under shotguns is that the manufacturers almost always cut corners by only providing ONE trigger for TWO barrels! I don't see why folks keep putting up with this sort of thing. Confused

If I shoot an O/U I seem to find myself pulling fruitlessly on the rear of the trigger guard when I want to touch off a second shot, seeking in vain for the missing second trigger. And to make things worse, to make up for the leaving off of the handy second trigger these guns are rigged up with some kind of mechanically complex contraption to switch around which barrel the lone trigger touches off! Who came up with this idea, Rube Goldberg? Rolling Eyes

In short, I believe that a SXS is the better choice for most hunting; at least you get your money's worth in the article of sufficient number of triggers.

Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 50

I don't mean to draw this topic out with meaningless verbage but I do disagree with some peoples impressions of guns from by gone days.

I believe if my memory serves me correctly, L C Smith production figures show about 80% of all their guns were "Field" grade. That leaves darn few, by comparison for the Fancy Pants of the shooting sports.

I can show you a whole gagle of L C's that are in VERY....and I mean VERY nice Field grade condition and they are from the first half of tha last century. The ones that are more worn, assuming they are not Damascas barreled, are still probably tighter and more trouble free than the majority of modern guns.

The one I bought recently is not presteen by any means and the top lever is a bit to the left of center but anyone who knows Smith's knows that even with wear they lock up tight and this one does lock up tight! If there comes a time they don't then get the parts, yes they are still available, and replace what is worn.

"Klunkers" is not a term I would apply to my recent purchase nor would I apply it to almost all, without exception, of the Smith's I see on line, even the well used ones. Age alone does not dictate "klunkership". If it did, I would be a "klunker" too! I have to admit though, I have been "knocked about" a bit over the years but I still can hit the mark more often than not and I even get 'tight' once in great while, too! Very Happy

....well spoken, rollcrimp, my Smith is as tight as a tick.... a field ejector from 1921, and aside from an internal crack repair that needed a little lovin', it is a wonderful, dependable gun that I would take for $1300 over about anything out there for that price, and many guns selling for much, much more!!

Klunker is a little harsh a term for our fine Smiths, mine weighs in at about 7 lbs.... a nice weight for me to shoot low to moderate pressure loads at clays all darn day long with no ill effects (on me or the gun).... I would prefer (and do), however, something at least a pound less for all day field work on live birds.... (for me, it's actually 2 pounds less...)

brit

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

The main problem with the Elsies is that they will develop cracks behind the lock plates. Get that taken care of early, and not a lot else is likely to go wrong--if you start with a gun that's in decent shape. But you do NOT want to have to pay to restock an Elsie!

My first 16 was a pre-war Sauer. That was back in the Dark Ages as far as my knowledge of and experience with doubles go. Short chambers, I just had them punched out, shot hundreds of high brass pheasant loads through that gun. Only had one problem: top lever-Greener crossbolt connection broke on me. I then found out that not just any gunsmith can repair a sxs. But once I got that fixed, we were back in business again.

They'll certainly all break, and turn-around time and cost fixing an old one are likely to be longer/greater . . . so you pay your money and you take your chances.

My use of clunker wasn't ment to include the smiths, parker trojans, sterlingworths(ok maybe sterlingworths) contenital gun, ect. but the 100-400 dollar guns that I can't remember the names of. And even the clunkers, if looked at carefully are good value. Which I think was my point. In resonable shape a clunker is better value than most of the sub 1k guns from the major mfg's