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< 16ga. Guns ~ Sxs or O/U? |
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Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 5:12 am
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Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 741
Location: Long Island, NY
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Larry Brown wrote: |
The main problem with the Elsies is that they will develop cracks behind the lock plates. Get that taken care of early, and not a lot else is likely to go wrong--if you start with a gun that's in decent shape. But you do NOT want to have to pay to restock an Elsie!
My first 16 was a pre-war Sauer. That was back in the Dark Ages as far as my knowledge of and experience with doubles go. Short chambers, I just had them punched out, shot hundreds of high brass pheasant loads through that gun. Only had one problem: top lever-Greener crossbolt connection broke on me. I then found out that not just any gunsmith can repair a sxs. But once I got that fixed, we were back in business again.
They'll certainly all break, and turn-around time and cost fixing an old one are likely to be longer/greater . . . so you pay your money and you take your chances.
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Larry,
I brought my first Sauer after reading your book. Funny thing, recently I went back and reread the book and couldn't figure out why I was so engrossed in the Sauer mystique originally. Your book , George Evans' Upland Shooting Life and a third, which I can't remember were constantly on my motor home when I ran it. That Sauer went everywhere with me. I shot thousands of rounds through it. I now have 6 more, and none have yet to visit the gunsmith for anything except opening chambers, and chokes. Not too shabby, considering that collectively they have 450 years of use.
On a New Brunswick Grouse trip, a buddy had a three year old Beretta fail. Pull trigger... no resistance... no click... no bang... no dead bird ! At the end of the week, he tried to buy/trade for my "back-up" Sauer.In over 20 years of buying, trading, and shooting shotguns, I have had only 1 mis-hap. An 80 year old Francott Knockabout broke the top lever spring. My gunsmith fixed the problem in 2 weeks.
I'd say thats not bad at all.
Later today, I will bring my newest sauer, a 16 ga. ejector with 29" barrels, to the gunsmith for a little stock fitting. I wish I could find out more about this gun. The engraving on the sides is far more intricate than a model 8. But the under side of the receiver has engraving similar to a model 14. However, a model 14 would have had a scalloped receiver, which this one does not.
And then, it's off to the airport to meet a fellow member who has a short layover. Do you think he'll recognize me if I wear my Blaze orange 16 ga. hat ??
I am truly sorry if I hijacked this thread, But I had to brag on my Sauers. |
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ... Dr. Seuss
"There aint nothin' better than huntin' with a Setter" |
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Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 5:32 am
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Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 740
Location: New England, home of fat teddy k.
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ok, so I missed the sauer in the clunker catagory, my bad, sorry |
_________________ I'm not sure, but indecision may or may not be my problem |
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Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 5:52 am
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Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 741
Location: Long Island, NY
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hunshatt wrote: |
ok, so I missed the sauer in the clunker catagory, my bad, sorry
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Oh, that hurts. Would some sympathetic soul please pull that knife out of my back !!
Hey, on another note... Charles at British Sporting Arms, in Millbrook, NY has a 1986? Simpson 16 ga. SXS model 147. 28" ejector. Nice game scene engraving. No clue as to weight. Aren't these guns identical to Merkel 147's ? Charles wants $2750.00. He usually doesn't deal very far from asking price. No clue if it's a good deal or not. |
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ... Dr. Seuss
"There aint nothin' better than huntin' with a Setter" |
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Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 7:45 am
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Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 740
Location: New England, home of fat teddy k.
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PGG, just posted on the other site about your rifle. you have the original stock still?
Just got my simson back from my stock guy. Came out the nuts. got rid of the sling hardware , put a brass shield over the hole. I hope the sauer comes back as nice as what he did on the simson |
_________________ I'm not sure, but indecision may or may not be my problem |
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Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 8:26 am
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Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 665
Location: Louisiana
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Rats! I'd just love to chime in here but I believe everything useful to be said has been. |
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Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 4:09 pm
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Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 740
Location: New England, home of fat teddy k.
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what the hay, chime in anyway |
_________________ I'm not sure, but indecision may or may not be my problem |
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Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 7:45 pm
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Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 741
Location: Long Island, NY
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hunshatt wrote: |
PGG, just posted on the other site about your rifle. you have the original stock still?
Just got my simson back from my stock guy. Came out the nuts. got rid of the sling hardware , put a brass shield over the hole. I hope the sauer comes back as nice as what he did on the simson
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You own a Sauer???? That is an intervention waiting to happen. |
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ... Dr. Seuss
"There aint nothin' better than huntin' with a Setter" |
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Posted:
Thu May 17, 2007 7:46 pm
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Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 741
Location: Long Island, NY
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woodcock wrote: |
Rats! I'd just love to chime in here but I believe everything useful to be said has been.
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Well said !!! |
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ... Dr. Seuss
"There aint nothin' better than huntin' with a Setter" |
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Posted:
Fri May 18, 2007 5:52 am
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Member
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 743
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Post-war, Sauer/Simson/Merkel (except the W. German Sauers) were all essentially the same guns. That's a pretty good price you mention, PGG.
Speaking of Sauers breaking . . . I was up at the UP sxs Shoot last summer, saw a neat old Sauer 20 on Bryan Bilinski's table. Up there, most of the dealers will let you shoot their used guns if you're interested. Bryan offered; I took him up on it. They had a 4 stand setup, all singles. I call for the bird, pull front trigger, click. I check for misfire, primer not dented. Repeat, same result. So I switch to the left barrel, then run the little course shooting the tight choke. I take it back to Bryan, who asks me what I think. I tell him I'm definitely interested, but prefer a gun on which both barrels actually fire. He was very embarrassed (not really his fault--he'd taken the gun in on consignment about an hour before I picked it up), but we ended up making the deal--at a reduced price, for a repaired gun. I'm not a huge 20ga fan, but once that one had a new hammer made, I shot it very well. Ended up parting with it, which I sometimes regret. But the new owner also shoots it well, so don't expect he'll tempt me by offering to sell it back to me. |
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Posted:
Fri May 18, 2007 6:06 am
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Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 740
Location: New England, home of fat teddy k.
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Yea PGG, I have one. It's my rain, sea duck, going sharking , don't worry about the damage to it , clunker.........
Just kidding. nice . lite, long barreled , sub $600.00 gun that I'll be out of for the grand range |
_________________ I'm not sure, but indecision may or may not be my problem |
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Posted:
Fri May 18, 2007 3:33 pm
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Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 759
Location: Somewhere in the Socialist State of Minnesota
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The main problem with the Elsies is that they will develop cracks behind the lock plates. . I use my old elsie for grouse hunting. Low pessure shells and no problem. Larry, what you say carries a lot of weight, not only on this forum but others as well. I think when you make a statement, such as this you should go farther in and say why these stocks crack. A little staement like the slsiea will crack behind the lockplate, from you can mean something. You are acting like the snobs out on the pointer forum. Choose your words carefully and the define what you are saying. |
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Posted:
Tue May 22, 2007 8:01 am
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Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 972
Location: Keller,TX
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Oldhunter, my brother, no need to chide brother Larry.Most folks would probably ask the question WHY do they crack, anyway. Not all Smith stocks do, by the way.
Poor inletting at the head and around the locks, is the answer. Shooting too heavy loads and not checking the stock for shrinkage and or water /oil/solvent damage causes the problems.
Sometimes we forget that not everyone has the knowledge we have. I certainly don't know all that much, and I'm still learning.We all learn in different ways, but I think the best is by asking questions of knowledgeable people. However, I would't try to answer a question that hasn't been asked. |
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Posted:
Tue May 22, 2007 9:31 am
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Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1043
Location: Bozeman, MT
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If anybody is interested, Elsie guru revdoc gave me 2 names of very good "Elsie crack docs", and I sent mine off to one of them. They perform "surgery" and use a combo of small metal pins, glues, and glass bedding on the main pressure points, that ultimately render your Elsie "uncrackable" after any cracks are fixed.... so there IS a solution for the Elsie that develops cracks, if needed, and the work is reasonably priced, IMO.... and well worth the expense to keep a beauty in the field, also like buying insurance against further damage, too...
brit |
_________________ "Life is what happens to you while you're making other plans"....... anonymous |
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