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Joined: 02 Jun 2007 Posts: 99 Location: Jacksonville, FL

Im thinking about purchasing the Browning BPS as my entry into the world of the 16 gauge... One day I hope to add an A5 Sweet or Standard 16 to my little collection.

One concern Ive had about getting and using a 16 is the relative unavailability of shells here in FLA.

Standard field loads are next to impossible to find and nontoxic loads...well, lets just say that they'll probably be mail-ordered...

I want to use it primarily for dove and duck hunting.... as Im old enough to remember bird (quail) hunting with my dad back in Georgia when there were actually wild birds to shoot and places to shoot them, and the idea of paying some dude big bucks to go kick up some pen raised pseudo-bobwhites is enough to make me want to cry..

What would be your recommendation for nontoxic loads? Sources? Also, what is the best type of hulls, etc. if I decide to reload? Are there reloading supplies for nontoxic?

Thanks in advance...

Jim

I have used the Remington nitro Steel No. 2's and they work great on both geese and ducks for me. They are hot at 1300 fps with 15/16 ounce of steel.... but your gun can certainly handle that. As far as reloading, I've never done it with steel, but have reloaded a bit of Bismuth. There are recipes around for 16ga steel, like in the new Lyman's shotgun reloading book available at Cabela's. I have also used the Federal steel No 2's with good results.... same 15/16 oz loads.

As to sources, I had to special order a case through a local gun dealer. As to reloading again, others here have done it, I know, and I hope they'll jump in to help you with some recipes.... I would suspect that a straight walled, higher capacity case like the Federal would be best, though I would use a nitro card over the powder so it doesn't leak past your wad.....

Good luck, be safe, have fun,

Brit

Member Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 524

hate to be contra-16GA but unless its all you have, it wouldnt be the best choice for waterfowl hunting. The main reasons we all love the 16 is first and foremost its light weight, efficiency with 1oz of lead and some of the great guns it was available in. My question for you with regard to a 16GA for waterfowl is,...............why? Thereare just flat out better tools for that job with so many different types of non tox factory ammo variations it aint even funny. Will it work? Heck yes it will work in many situations, but its far from the best choice. Ducks and especially geese are tough birds, found in even tougher conditions mostly. You need power, penetration in a big way and non crippling potential with regard to payload/ammo. Do you want your dog swimming down cripples through an icey swamp, river or lake because you wanted to shoot 1oz bismuth loads at ducks? NO - you don't. For close work over dekes on water or in the field the 16 should mostly be alright - for ducks only. Get yourself a beat up old 12GA 870 wingmaster with 3" chambers and have at it - it will offer plenty of sport with a dash of conservation to the choice as well. Use the 16 for doves and upland birds.
That's my opinion and I've killed many, many ducks and geese with everything except a .410 and a 28GA. Nothin better for that application than the 12GA. Its kind of like asking if the .243 is alright to use for Elk hunting and i even know some folks (very few ) that do, or have - but it aint the best choice by far.

Joined: 02 Jun 2007 Posts: 99 Location: Jacksonville, FL

Hmmm...why a 16? I can come up with at least half a dozen (poor) reasons why...

1) I don't own a 16 (yet)
2) When I find my 'perfect' Sweet 16 I dont want to drag the old girl through the mud of my ducking grounds...
3) I have three empty spaces left in my gun safe... they MUST be filled!
4) One can never have too many shotguns....
5) One can never have too many Brownings...
6) Im tired of hunting buddies and brothers begging shells from me... "Id love to, man, but all I brought today was my 16..."
7) Id like a (16) gun that I can use modern steel shot and has choke tubes..

and...

the only 16 Ive shot (an A5) was a beaut of a dove gun....

who knows, one day I may drive somewhere to Yankee land and try my hand at a pheasant or something equally exotic...

Or, maybe the whole state of Florida will burn down and we finally get some wild quail back in the state...

Yes, I agree with the lethality of the 12 - that's why I own three of them (an A5 Light 12, A 3" Wingmaster, and a 3 1/2" 870 Express for the saltwater)...but Ive also really enjoyed shooting ducks with my smaller gauges (Ive got a 20/28 Beretta Silver Pigeon II, A5 Light 20, and a Remmy 870 express 20 - again for the saltwater)... With the exception of only two places that I shoot, all of my hunting is done over decoys, and I assure you, at 20-30 yards the birds don't know the difference between a 20 and a 12 - dead is dead.

I didn't say this was a RATIONAL decision.... if we were all purely logical and utilitarian we'd all have just one 12 gauge in the closet for all of our gunning needs... but what fun would that be?

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

www.ballisticproducts.com

Flawater..., I like your reasoning for wanting to own a 16. Sure it isn't the best duck gun using steel shot. Certainly the shells can be difficult to find. But who said anything good in life was easy. I own two of them: an Ithica 37 and a Browning Citori. Those two guns are built on true frames and feel great in my hands. I just like using them. I also like being the unusual person using one at the clays range. It sets you apart. I'm even thinking about getting a new one,one of the new run Citori White Lightnings.Even getting a 16 ga gun is a little difficult. Don't get me wrong. A 16 wouldn't be the only gun to own,but it sure is nice to have a couple.

Member Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 446 Location: Wisconsin

I second hoashooter, I have a case of #6 Kent TM for ducks for use in my Pre-War M37. -Dick

....most of you guys are old enough ( I think) to have savoured the luxury of shooting 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 No. 4 or 5 LEAD SHOT at ducks with the 16..... LETHAL!! The old "carries like a 20, shoots like a 12" addage really applied ON DUCKS and GEESE (handloads for the honkers in No 2 and BB) back then, as it still does for any other bird hunting now. I mean, that's surely why I'm into the 16.

....but EVEN with steel and Bismuth (and the abovementioned Kent TM), I feel you can do the job on waterfowl excepting perhaps the most EXTREME high flying, long range fowling....which you still could absolutlely have done with lead in days of yore.

Since 90% of my waterfowling is either pass shooting in strategic spots between water and grain fields or over decoys, my sixteens are PERFECT for the task.

....and I still take mine to the open field goose set up.... my preference. An ounce of No. 2 steel at 1300 fps does NOT fail me (unless I flat out shoot low and behind or something) If I am patient and self-controlled with my shots, limiting them to within around 25-30 yards.....it is meat in the pot with the 16 and No. 2 steel on waterfowl.

....I think I'd shop for a Browning Citori (you can find standard Citori's with tubes for around $1500....I recently got one NEW for that), and with steel, I'd suggest IC/MOD, or just IC/IC (my choice personally). the steel patterns throw extra tight patterns, and I think you'll find your IC choke shoots more like a MOD.

brit

I'm gonna weigh in here:

Last year I was forced into using my 16 as a duck gun when my 12 crapped out on me - I'm glad for it too.

1 oz of #4 Bismuth kept 3 ducks from going any further south than my freezer.

I have been shooting steel for all but one of my seasons on the marshes. I am hoping to be able to switch to bizz fully for the future - I am not joyed by running steel through my vintage gun but if I had a modern gun I would.

Britgun summed it up nicely and I agree - if you do your part as a hunter, you'll be well equipped with a 16...

It becomes all about "How?" not "How many?"

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

If we did this for meat, if making it easy was important, if the cost was of primary importance....we'd all buy long island duckings from the freezer case at the store.

Sure the current shelf stock of ammunition makes it easier to feed a 12 ga, but with just a little effort you can find no tox 16 shells that will kill ducks and geese stone dead. They are not cheap, but they will still be the least expensive thing you buy.....less than gas, hotels, boats , motors, decoys and cheaper than time which is gone forever when you waste it.

I shoot 12's and 16's but I dont NEED a 12, I just have some that I enjoy shooting.

Sneaking through flooded timber with a 16 is perfect. Make a committment to pass up on the ducks that just blow on by at 48 1/2 yards....If you cant get the ducks to pitch into your dekes you can let them go anyway cause you have not yet closed the deal.

Jeff

Flawaterfowler, go to Basspro.com, click on hunting then click on shooting accessories. You will see shotgun ammunition listed. Scroll down to the Remington gameloads and you can buy 16 ga by the case. Go down a little farther and you will see Remington steel shot. They have 15/16 oz of 2's and 4's, take your pick.

Best part is they bring them right to your door. I've ordered several case from them.

Jeff Mulliken wrote:

Member Joined: 27 Nov 2005 Posts: 258 Location: Nordern MN

Kent's Tungsten Matrix in 16ga is amazing - ducks or geese. I would take it over 12ga steel shot any day.

The 16ga steel I've shot has been very poor - Tungsten Matrix and Bismuth perform nearly identical to lead in my opinion.

NR

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

Keep steel shot out of that old Model 12, unless it has open chokes. It can bulge the barrel behind the choke...

Jeff