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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Cheddite wads falling apart. |
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Posted:
Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:31 pm
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 81
Location: Illinois
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I've been testing with the new Cheddite wads that Grafs is selling, and they are coming apart. I loaded some light 7/8 oz. loads in a 2 1/2" cheddite hull with HS6 powder at about 1100 fps, which should be a low pressure load.
Out of about 20 rounds fired I found two hulls with the bottom section of the wad still in the hull. I also picked up one wad off of the ground that had the bottom section missing, and another with a hole punched through the over powder section of the wad.
The failures were with the 1 1/8 oz. wad. I haven't noticed any seperations yet with the 1 oz. wad. I fired about 10 of each.
Does anybody have any ideas on what could be going on to cause such a failure? |
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Posted:
Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:28 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 3438
Location: Illinois
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Were the wads brittle when they were loaded |
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Posted:
Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:28 pm
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H1tdk that is most odd. What powder charge of HS-6 did you use?
Can you see what will happen using 16 grains of Unique with the 7/8th ounce load. This powder charge gives me great performance with both Black Remingtons and R16 wads and Cheddite hull with Gualandi wads. |
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Posted:
Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:17 am
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Member
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 339
Location: Schuyler County, NY.
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H1tdk00
I hope you try the 2 unique loads that Twice Barrel has mentioned. I use both these loads and think highly of them. Looks like the cheddite hulls are off my Xmas list of wants. All I could suggest is to closely examine that bag of wads for some type of damage that could of occured during manufacture |
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Posted:
Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:12 am
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Member
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: Central Missouri
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How do you explain the bottom section of the wad to remain in the hull after the shell has been fired that would mean the entire shot column would also be in the hull ????? and is this a Cheddit wad or a Gualandi ??? didnt know Graff sold a Cheddit Plastic wad ??? could you shed some more light on the subject ??? Some parts of the puzzle are missing .
Regards Charles |
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Posted:
Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:16 am
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 81
Location: Illinois
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I was using 21.5 grains of HS 6. It should be a very low pressure load based on similar load of 25 grains of HS 6 with a Gualandi wad and 1 oz. of shot at under 9000 psi.
I don't have any Unique powder, but I will try and get some next time I'm at Grafs.
Charles, this is the new Cheddite wad that Grafs is selling, not the Gualandi wads. Only the bottom section of the wad is still in the hull. The shot cup and all the shot exit the barrel, and actually have fairly consistent chronograph readings. The wad is seperating into 2 pieces. And it was only the 1 1/8 oz. wad that was seperating. None of the 1 oz. wads seperated. I did find a spent 1 oz. wad that had a hole in the over powder section of the wad, but the whole wad was intact.
On a positive note, the wads really give nice patterns. Noticeably tighter than the Gualandi wads. |
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Posted:
Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:47 am
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Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1545
Location: Michigan
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I'm with Charles on this one. I don't see how any portion of the wad could still be in the hull after firing. Unless maybe you forgot to put powder in the hull, and the shot just rolled out the end of the gun barrel. |
_________________ What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. |
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Posted:
Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:31 pm
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 81
Location: Illinois
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Dave, I actually chronographed one of the loads that did this. It chronographed right at 1100 fps, I picked the hull up and the over powder section of the wad was still in the hull. There was a large hole blown in the middle of it, so I'm sure the pressure just blew through the bottom section of the wad and pushed the shot cup section with the shot out the barrel.
I know it might be hard to believe, but that is exactly what happend.
I called and talked to Mike Graf, and he said to send the wads back with some samples of the seperated wads. |
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Posted:
Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:02 pm
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Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 138
Location: Parma, OH
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OK, that was the key piece of info. The seal of the bottom portion of the wad got stuck, not the entire bottom of the wad.
Mike Doerner |
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Posted:
Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:41 pm
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Member
Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 60
Location: West Michigan
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AhHa!
Brian |
_________________ No Risk, No Reward |
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Posted:
Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:21 am
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Member
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 591
Location: Plains, MT.
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tdk,
Ya got ta be careful in your explanations on this board. You may be communicating with a bunch of engineers. Then again even they will come around in time.
Best,
Ron |
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Posted:
Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:51 am
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Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 241
Location: Bitterroots
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h1tdk00 wrote: |
I've been testing with the new Cheddite wads that Grafs is selling, and they are coming apart. I loaded some light 7/8 oz. loads in a 2 1/2" cheddite hull with HS6 powder at about 1100 fps, which should be a low pressure load.
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I have done minimal testing with both of these Cheddite wads with PB powder, Federal hulls trimmed to 2 9/16" and 7/8oz shot. I have not seen any wad failures......
This is not saying the wads may not indeed be faulty; just that I haven't seen a problem as of yet.....
A somewhat similar occurence happened a while back with Downrange's new XXL wad. Kevin, (you know, the Downrange wad boss that's going to get us a 7/8oz 16ga wad?) Well, Kevin found out the "REAL" problem! It is worth reading this thread on Shotgunworld.....
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=98128&highlight=downrange+xxl
However, your load really scares me! Using heavily deterrent coated ball powders for reduced loads is a dangerous application in my opinion!
Yes, you may get low pressure readings as you "burn" mostly the deterrent coating off... But like a dampened back cold burning woodstove though, you may just get a back-puff...... The wad damage could be a warning sign!
Indeed..... Reduced loads with heavily deterred spherical powders are being listed by some for so-called low pressure applications .....
For what it's worth, my recommendation would be to use the single base proven powders for low pressure applications like PB and 7625 however...
Sometimes you can pet a tame badger for quite a while..... Then one day it will turn and bite your hand off!
Slidehammer |
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Posted:
Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:41 pm
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 81
Location: Illinois
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Sorry for the poor description guys.
Slidehammer, thanks for the tip. I'll definately stop using the HS6. I have some PB, I will give that a try and see what happens.
Are you using the 1 oz. or the 1 1/8 oz. wad? |
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Posted:
Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:06 pm
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Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 241
Location: Bitterroots
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h1tdk00,
I got some of both of the Cheddite wads to try... (1oz, 1 1/8oz)
However I am only loading 7/8oz at about 1150fps in Federal hulls. I cut wads from styrofoam meat trays to put into shotcup first before shot drop to adjust crimp space.
Loads seem fine, but as I said I haven't tried but 25 of each so far as I just got the wads.
Slidehammer |
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Posted:
Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:44 pm
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Member
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: Central Missouri
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Hang in there Slidehammer , your going to get your 3/4-7/8 OZ wads . I am working real hard on this and soon they will be here.
Regards Charles |
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