16ga.com ~ View topic

Hey all -

I have a "new" sxs 16ga that my dad stumbled across in a back country gun shop in rural Kentucky. Figuring he would never be back there again and the price being right, he bought it and brought it down to Mississippi for me to look at and shoot. It's a nifty little gun and fits me really well.

So, I sat down with the BlueBook last night to see if I could ID it. Not alot of luck, so I thought I would post the info I can figure out here and see what I can learn, since I know next to nothing about french sxs's.

Here is what I know so far. The gun is a 16 ga. SGDG with markings:
Modele SGDG Brevette. I assume it is French and found a bit about it
being an early french military shotgun. The gun is light, very well balanced,
has extractors, it works smoothly and is solid as can be locking up. The markings on both sides in chamber on the barrels say ACIER DC and below this:SURFTC; and closer to barrels: CHOKE BECTIFIE and then below this PORTEE GARANTIC. Seems to me that it is choked full and modified; Serial # 29536.

I sent Drew some pictures to post in this thread.

Thanks much for the help and I am very curious to read what you say.

BradW

Here's the sideplate

Brad's going to try to get high resolution close ups of the watertable, brl flats, and brl markings to me tonight.

Member Joined: 17 Feb 2007 Posts: 497

Sounds like Manufrance ? I believe they built very few sidelocks - This was a fine gun in it's day, the equal of many more famous makes. Looking forward to the other Photos.

Here they are Very Happy

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Brad,
So this is how you respect my advice all these months, you turn up owning a FROG gun!!!!
Rolling Eyes

Oh the shame of it!!!

Don't bother emailing me in the future. Wink

And for everyone else, I take back anything nice I may have said about Brad.......

Pete (who can still remember my Cockney grandmother standing at the kitchen sink peeling spuds, cigarette hanging from the corner of her mouth, muttering under her breath, "Bloody Frogs!!!".

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

17.1 is the bore size, expressed in mm. 17.1 is not real tight in the bore for a French 16 gauge gun. Single proof at St. Etienne with French smokeless powder T, post 1900 build date. 65 is, of course, 2 1/2 inch chambers. The rest of the marks I can make out have to do with steel quality, and regulation, and are pretty standard on the flats of French guns. I don't know the make, or model. I'd let a good 'smith have a look see, measure the internals on the tubes, strip and clean it, and take his advice on feeding and care.
My English guns never killed anything more dead than my French guns.
Best,
Ted

I've heard of "Brevette" before, but never in a sidelock, or is it a sideplated boxlock, though pins make it look like maybe a sidelock, the gunsmith will tell you for sure. How much does it weigh and how long are the barrels?

Cool, unusual gun.....

Duncan

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

Duncan,
Brevette simply means "Patent" in French, and almost all of the guns have it stamped somewhere on them. It is not the name of a make or model. Often times it is something as simple as the method used to cut the matting in the ribs, or an automatic safety.
Best,
Ted

From http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=236492
"SCDC" might be SGDG, "Sans Garantie du Gouvernment", a peculiar French indication that something is patented but that the patent does not constitute a guarantee by the government. "Acier Meteor" is Meteor Steel, apparently a trade name. "Choke Rectifie" is Modified Choke.

As to "Portee Garantie", the latter word means the same as above, but I don't know what "Portee" means in this context.

The guage is likely 16, as that was the most common gauge in Europe. St. Etienne could be the name of the town, or of the Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de St. Etienne, a large gun factory in that town that made both military and civilian arms.

I suggest removing the barrels and looking on the bottom for the proof marks. One crown and the letters "PT" indicate the standard smokeless powder proof; two crowns indicates a high pressure proof.

Member Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 972 Location: Keller,TX

I seem to remember reading about guns with these same markings tied in with Husqvarna shotguns. Might be worth checking into.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Most of the above info looks good. From that sideplate, I'm pretty sure we're looking at a sideplated boxlock rather than a sidelock. Not enough pins and screws in the right places for a sidelock.

Drew has the SGDG correct. Portee garantie simply means that the range is guaranteed--but they don't tell you what it is. Choke rectifie doesn't have anything to do with the degree of choke; rather, just means that it's been regulated (or "modified"--but not in the sense of a mod choke). Single (ordinary) St. Etienne proof--double and triple proof were also offered. St. Etienne, in this case, is simply where the gun was submitted for proof--and probably built. It was by far the largest French gunmaking center.

So basically what it sounds like is I am looking at a French guild gun? Why would there not be a manufacturer's mark or name inscribed on the gun? Is it a military gun? Which war? (anything from Franco-Prussian to WWII is possible)

How do I go about dating it? Ted noted it is a post 1900, but can you date it any closer than that??

LB is correct that it is a sideplated boxlock and not a true sidelock (darn!). It has .007 choke in the left barrel and .022 in the right, which puts it somewhere between SK and IC in the left and somewhere between IM and Full in the right. 26.5" Barrels, 2 1/2 inch chambers, single crown = ordinary proof, it weighs just a hair over 6 lbs, right around 6.03 on the digital scale.

I have a smith here in MS, but he doesn't really do old sxs. Any recommendations for a good smith for an old french sxs?

I suspect it will do just as well knocking the birds out of the sky as my American classic sxs or any brit gun, still I just never suspected I would own a french 16ga SXS someday.

Thanks for the help,

Brad

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

First question-yes. Second question-lots of reasons, but, likely had to do with cost-it's cheaper when there is no name, usually. Third question-no. Fourth question-see 3rd question. Fifth question-no. But, in truth, it is a modern era gun, with modern proof. How much closer do you need? Sixth question, Kirk Merrington is your man-google his name, you will find everything you need to know on his website.

Last suspicion is correct-don't be surprised if it replaces the Yanks.
Best,
Ted

Joined: 07 Jul 2005 Posts: 23

Don't mean to hijack the tread.
Any one heard of Canon Fancet a French shotgun maker. I always thought "Canon" means "gun" in French...this one looks very well made.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=75962830