16ga.com ~ View topic

*Last edited by brdhnt on Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:45 am; edited 2 times in total*

Fellow 16'ers:

This past weekend I was the guest of the President and Board of Directors of a major gun maker/importer. We discussed the new guns that they had as prototypes and what changes they should make to them before doing them as a production run.

This company currently makes a couple of 16 gauge side by side models and the president told me that the 16 gauges are almost constantly back ordered and they are seriously considering expanding their line of 16 gauge guns. They will be offering several of their over and under models in 16 gauge probably in 2009 since they have to build the machinery to produce a true 16 gauge frame in their overand under line.

We also discussed a 16 gauge autoloader. They are currently revamping their semi-auto line and were very interested. The price would be in the $650 - $ 800 range.

Here is what I proposed to them:

A 16 gauge autoloader built on a 16 gauge or if possible a 20 gauge frame.

Use an alloy receiver to keep the weight down to the 6 1/4 - 6 1/2 pound range.

Offer a choice of 24 or 28 inch vent rib barrels with interchangeable chokes.
This would give equivalent lengths to a 26 or 30 inch side by side or O/U.

Limit magazine capacity to three shells to keep weight down and make for a slimmer and shorter forend.

They are interested and would like some feedback. I told them I would run a poll on this site and get back to them with the results.

So please take the time to vote and if you have any additonal comments, please let me know.

I have not listed the gun company because they asked me not to and I am repsecting their wishes. I will say that with past associations with this company, that they have a good product, excellent warranty and customer service and are VERY interested in what the consumers want. I urged them to bring out a 16 gauge for three years and they brought out their side by side in two models and are very pleased with the sales of them and are considering expanding their 16 gauge offerings.

Thanks

Terry M. Boyer
________
oxygen vaporizer

I would be hesitant to tool up for a 16 gauge received if I could make do with the 12 gauge as Remington did most recently. While there might be an initial surge for a run of 16 gauge autos--I doubt there would be sustained interest. Other US manufacturers have discovered the same.

After the core group buys--the remainder could sit awhile. How many units would they produce a month and how many would it take to break even I wonder?

I always wanted a good 16 ga auto. Something like the Benelli M1. I agree on the frame size issue. Why buy a 16 on a 12 frame. I don't care for 24 or 28 inch barells. I could live with the 28 inch but prefer 26 inch. I currently have three auto's and all are 26 inch.
I think the biggest issue that holds down the 16 ga is the availability of ammo. I went to Gander Mountain last week and they had little to nothing for the 16. There was an old fellow I talked to that was looking for 16 ga ammo as well. He told me he had a sweet 16 he liked to shoot but ammo was always a problem. It is the same story with Cabellas and Bass Pro. I think making good 16's available is a great start, but some how we need to get the ammunition side to follow.

I'm all for the basic 16ga semi-auto. Keep it simple and keep the weight down as you have suggested. Your ideas are a super starting point and if they decide to go forth I'll be ready.
Best,
Ron

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

A properly scaled reciever is a must. 26 and 28 in barrels make sense.

It has to appeal to hunters as there are no clay games with organized competition in 16 ga.

It has to appeal to upland hunters as there is no (affordable) no-tox 16 ga ammo around for water fowl.

Jeff

Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 91

I too have wanted a nice 16 ga. auto for many years. I think that they had better come out with an exceptional product if they expect to sell high volume.

The reason I say that is, Benelli came out with the Ultra Lite in late 2005. Since the gun in 12 ga. weighs only 6 lbs, I can consider it a 20 ga., 16 ga. and a 12 ga. It shoots and functions just fine as a 20 (7/ Cool

, 1 oz (16) and 1 1/8 (12).It will shoot heavier loads if one has the intestinal fortitude to proceed.

Ammunition is easy to get generally, but of course reloading and tailoring the loads to what one wants is better.

Personally, I have 4, 16 ga. guns and shoot them quite a bit. But, since the Benelli is so light, it has become my favorite. Besides all the arguments above, the new Ultra Lite has dynamics to die for which makes it a very easy gun to shoot. In addition, the recoil is very manageable with up to 1 1/8 oz loads.

Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 367

Keep the price under $500!!!
use the basic outline of the M37 and match the weight. or try the Marlin 90 outline with its deep fore-end and single barrel coming out of that.
Make "MADE IN THE USA!!!!!

I appreciate a 6.5 lb gun on a proper frame w/26" bbls. Three shots is fine with me...works for doves and I've never fired more than two at phez or quail. For a 16 my care abouts are, in order...

1. weight (i.e. the old light weight 16 ga 870's - on a 12 frame - are still a fav. as the one I have is 6.2lbs.)
2. reliability
3. looks
4. cost

Brad

Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 268 Location: Meridian, ID

*Last edited by brdhnt on Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:45 am; edited 1 time in total*

Hal - They are currently retooling their entire assembly line for semi-autos so bringing it out on a true 16 or a 20 frame would be easy for them to do from the start. The Remingtons were heavier than the 12 gauge versions because they were built on 12 gauge frames.

jroth, Their price was based on what they know their manufacturing costs would be. Check the weight. Model 37's weighed the same.

Made in the USA would make it cost $1500-$2000.

nutcase - So what? I've seen an awful lot of junk guns made in the US and a lot of good guns made elsewhere. I'd rather have a good gun that works than a name brand USA gun that doesn't.

People, I'm trying to get some serious input here that I can take back to the company and maybe get us a 16 gauge autoloader in a configuration that not only does not currently exist, but has NEVER existed. Even the Remington 11-48's in 16 built on the 20 gauge frames were the old long recoil design and not gas.

They told mw the number that they would like to have for first year production and since they are a smaller company it is not that large.
________
Smoke kills

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Terry,
I like your specs with one exception.
I think you'd be missing a sure bet if they didn't take advantage of the lightweight technology available now, exemplified by the Benelli 12 ga at 6 lbs mentioned above.

6 1/4 - 6 3/4 lb 16 ga guns are a glut on the used market, with certain pumps on the light end, English and Spanish SxSs in the middle, and Sweet 16s at the heavy end.

If a manufacturer wants to make a bold 16 ga statement, why not make it 6 lbs even OR slightly lighter, maybe 5 lb 13 or so. A gun that weighed 6 lbs LOADED would be highly sought after, IMHO. I'd even consider a 16 that weighed 5 1/2 empty.

All this, of course, is dependent on their ability to infuse the gun with the balance and handling dynamics necessary in a "sweet" 16.

Now, if you can convince an ammo company to make a decent reloadable hull....... Shocked

Pete

Member Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 885 Location: Wisconsin

2 11-48 16s and Belgan sweet 16, Rem 11-48s are lighter. Make it on a 20 ga. frame, alloy receiver, I'd probably buy one, don't know why, but I would. Much prefer SxSs, but am a sucker for most 16s that are under 7 lbs. at the most.

Joined: 09 Aug 2007 Posts: 450 Location: WI

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2006 Posts: 602 Location: western pa

Being a SxS man, I need a 16 autoloader like another ear, BUT if I saw one neatly done in polished bluing with a walnut stock and cut checkering, you would have my immediate attention. Not fancy with goofy machine engraving,just a nice basic gun at a reasonable weight. Give it a $700 price tag and yep, I'll have to have one. With my hearing,I suppose I could also use another ear. Thanks for looking into it Terry.

Guest

I'd buy one if it were under 6 1/2 pounds and well made. I have a 6lb 16 gauge SxS and a 6 3/4 lb Sw16, so if this new proposed auto were pushing 7 pounds I'd pass, and in my opinion this company would have a poor selling dog like the recent Remington 870 and 1100 16 gauges, but at 5 3/4 - 6 1/4 lbs it would be an outstanding upland shotgun.

I'm all for using the ideas that make the Benelli Ultralight so appealing. Light weight with a short 2 shot magazine and forearm. I'd prefer an inertia driven action vs. a gas auto. They're just so simple to clean and reliable in the field, but I wouldn't balk if it were gas powered. I'd say a 26" barrel would be about right for an upland gun, although the Benelli UL works well with a 24" tube, I suspect the slimmer 16 would do better with a couple more inches of barrel.

Like some of you here, I've also found myself liking SxS's and semiautos these days. It's sort of an odd juxtapostion of shotgun types, but I enjoy both more than the others.