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Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 863 Location: NoDak

Hi all, just throwing this out for my general info. What are the advantages of the 1 1/4 load over the 1 1/8 oz load (other than more shot)?

I've been using GP 1 1/8oz #5 for most of my upland hunting and find it to be an excellent load. I will continue to use it in the future.

I have shot the 1 1/4oz load years ago.

Just wanted to get your take on this subject.

Thanks as always!!

Greg

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Guest

I have found one such load that I like. It is the Federal Premium Wing Shok (P165 6). They go darn near a buck a shell, but I use them second-barrel only, and about a dozen will get me through a season.

Guest

If anyone has shot a lead load of a 1 7/8 oz 3" 12 gauge or 1 1/4 3" 20 gauge, you have discovered that it is a fairly inefficient load given its capacity, Top trap shooter are required to shoot a 1 1/8 oz in a 12 gauge and can hit their targets from 16 to 27 yards and the top shooters get their 100 straight. The only reason to increase your shot capacity is when you have to use larger pellets and need to increase the number of pellets to provide an adequate pattern. IMHO, the largest pellet that should go down a 16 gauge barrel is a #5 lead and a 1 1/8 oz load has 191 pellets with that load. If that can't drop a pheasant at a moderate range with #5s, the problem isn't with the load but probably the person behind the gun. Gene Hill said something to the effect that it's amazing what a flat of ammo and some clays targets can do to work out a person's shooting problems. Going to a heavier payload may not be the solution...

Good luck

Guest

I'd agree that going to a heavier payload is quite often not the solution.

The two exceptions to the ideal load "rules" that I've found and that I well like are the earlier mentioned Feds from the top barrel of my FAIR-made 16s and the 1 oz Winchester 28 from the top barrel of my RRL, which does happen to be back-bored.

At one point last year I was at 13 birds on 15 shells out of the FAIR Model 900 16 gauge. I would go to the freezer and tell the two that fell to the second shot (the Federal Premium 1 1/4 load) that I'm sorry ... but they were long ago digested. From my POV, no problem in my particular person-gun-shell equation. I'm not a fan of big loads or sky busting, but sometimes certain guns and shells do seem to "come together" as fine as pie.

And although I get the analogy, breaking a clay bird and killing a rooster aren't equivalents. I do, though, shoot at least once a week and quite often twice a week. I'd love it if I could shoot 5 and work 2, but it just isn't the case, nor will it be for many a day.

Joined: 02 Jun 2007 Posts: 107 Location: N.W. Iowa

Over 30 years ago that was my duck and goose load.1 1/4 OZ of 2's out of a prewar Ithaca 37.Did'nt seem to notice the recoil so much.(Moved on to 1 1/2 of 2,4,6 mixes in front of 33.5 gr. of 540 out of a M-50 Win. 12 ga. Shocked

AHH to be young again)
Used the same 1 1/4 OZ load with 4's on the 1st pheasant I shot,took him at about 25 yards and got every one of those pellets to touch him.The spaniels did'nt seem to mind but mom threw the bird away.I don't own any new stock at this point only because of the price but there are still a few boxes of those old deuces in my stash.I run predominantly 4's on pheasants and have an equal amount of 5's on the shelves.Run big or run little as long as the birds hit the ground dead at our place I don't care,,,a month from tomorrow that's just what will be happening.

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

The 'bigger is better' affliction seemed to return home to this country from Europe after WWII. Big guns and larger payloads were (are?) all the rage. Even a cursory examination of the available literature would seem to suggest to virtually all shooters that 'bigger is better' ain't necessarily so.
To wit: the popularity of 2 1/2 ' 12 ga.guns. The increasing appreciation of the 16 and the realization that the 3" 20 is pretty inefficient. The development of 7/8 0z.wads and loads for th 12, the increasing popularity of both 3/4 and 7/8 oz. loads in the 16, the improvement in clay bird games scorres with lighter loads,etc.,etc.,etc.

I have in my 'recipe book' a 1 3/8 oz. load developed by Don Zutz for the 16.............why?

The 16gauge shotgun originally was loaded with 7/8 oz. shot as standard--the 1 oz. load is perfect. If you want to shoot 1 1/8 or heavier why don't you just shoot a 12?

Now all this is just MY opinion and I would like to hear contrasting views as I truly don't understand why the urge to load our smoothbores so heavily.

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 863 Location: NoDak

Hi, while I agree 100% that bigger is not better and the 1oz load for a 16 is "The" square load. I have used the 1 1/8 load on pheasants here in NoDak on wild birds, this load really seems to knock them for a loop with #5 Nickle plated shot.

I think you are right on how some folks like bigger. My partner always uses 1 7/8 #4 in 12ga thru a full choke. He claims he always kills birds out to 60-70 yds! Well truth be known, I paced off one of his 60+ shots, came out to be around 35 yds. Yet he swears by this load. He has confidence in it. I won't rain on his parade.

I have gotten away from big loads, but then again, I have a hard time to bring myself to use 1 oz loads (all in my mind). For me, I have confidence in the 1 1/8 load I'm using now. I may try the 1 oz load this year, just to see, who knows, I may find this load perfect for me.

All the best!!!!

Greg

*Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total*

G, the choice between 1-1/8 ounces and 1-1/4 ounces should be based on your choice of shot size. If a fellow wants to use #5 shot, 1-1/8 ounce allows for probably just enough shot to be sufficient. However, if the job calls for #4 shot, then 1-1/4 ounce is just about minimum to allow for barely enough pattern density with the big pellets. #4 shot is also just about the biggest shot size that will pattern reasonably well out of most modern 16 gauge guns. So that shot size and load are about as hard a hitting load as you can effectively use in a 16. I also occasionally use 1 -1/4 ounce load of #5 shot to sweeten the pattern for longer than average range shooting on later season pheasant.

I should also add that a fast 1 ounce load of #6 shot will fold most average pheasant at the more modest ranges we usually face. I also use 3/4 and 7/8 ounce loads on smaller birds with smaller shot whenever they will do the job. 3/4 ounces of 7-1/2 shot will roll any quail you hit right out to 35 yards. 7/8 ounces of #7 shot will dump the toughest ruff ever born. That is the beauty of a 16. It covers just about any type of upland shooting we face from snipe and woodcock up to the bigger grouse and, of course, pheasant.

The biggest 16 gauge loads are not for older vintage doubles though. They will soon loosen up most old 16 ga doubles. There, an ounce or at most, an occasional ounce and an eigth of shot at very modest velocities is probably wiser. Hope this helps you.

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

Thank you Greg. Your reply tells me some things I want to know. I think I understand about the 'confidence' one develops in a certain load--I had a difficult time believing that 7/8 oz would do most of what my preferred one ounce loads were doing--still do at times.
Generally I find that 1oz. works well even in a duck blind (no pass shooting of course) and I have never been able to produce satisfactory patterns with 4's so 5's are about a big as I'll use---just fine for over decoys as are 6's much of the time.

On a recent dove shoot in South Texas I did revert to my 'pre-epiphany' days to use some 1 1/8 oz loads for pass shooting on White wings that were on oxygen--I was disappointed as there was no change in my results despite the 'sweetened' pattern.

We both seem to have partners with similar predispositions to "fill the air with lead" and distance estimation 'challenges' Laughing

Ron

*Last edited by brdhnt on Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:45 am; edited 1 time in total*

Although probably 95% of my hunting with the 16 gauge is with loads of 1 to 1 1/8 ounce, I have a favorite 1 1/4 ounce load that I have used very well on late season (January) pheasants in several states. This load uses the old Activ all-plastic case with 1 1/4 ounces of nickel plated #4's and is the second barrel load, or the second shot in the magazine when using a repeater. I have found that it works very well on heavily feathered, winter fat pheasants in a prairie wind on those 40-50 yard shots. It gives Improved Modified patterns out of a IC or Skeet II choke and full patterns out of a modified, so I can have a tighter choke and a heavier load as my second shot.

How often do I use it? Not all that often, but it is good to have when needed. I loaded up two boxes of it two years ago, and I still have 21 shells left in the second box. My notebooks reveal that of the 29 shells fired, they accounted for 23 roosters of which only 1 hit the ground running and had to be chased down by the dog. Most ofthe shots were in the 40 yard + range and windy conditions were present on most of the hunts. Yes, it is stout and does kick, but it is a 'specialty' load for certain conditions that works when my favorite No. 5 loads are 'just not enough'.

For most hunting situations, as I stated, the 1 to 1 1/8 ounce loads are all that are required.

In My Experience

TMB
________
Hot box vaporizers

I'm exactly on the same page Terry. I don't need them often, but when
I do, there is nothing else quite as good. Those big #4 pellets penetrate better than any other pellet I can shoot well through a 16. Even the biggest old swamp cocks never flew through a pattern of #4 shot on me. Not one. I've had some act like #6 shot just bounced off. #5 shot is also very, very good on bigger birds, but it is not #4. It does not pattern as well with less choke either.

I also found that I need less choke to get decent long range patterns. That really comes in handy if I've rousted a big cock bird before I could get in range. Just drop in a 4 in the top barrel and go get the bird. Even if he gets up again out yonder, he's in real touble with the #4 shot ready to go.

Perhaps a 16 ga full choke tube is overchoke for the #4 pellets and does more harm than good. I've experienced the same phenomenon with buckshot in a 12 gauge. The full choke ruins patterns while a modest modified choke gives all the pattern percentage I can get. So there is a tip for some of the folks who have tried #4 shot and not gotten decent patterns. Try IC, Skeet II, modified, or light Imp mod to see how the patterns shape up. Like so much else we do with shotguns, sometimes trying something a bit different will do the trick. Never hurts to try.

Guest

It's interesting that we discuss the need for these long range load esp. for the late season's birds. Alot of times, we get into our mind that while the season goes on that we need to put heavier loads to get our pheasants. I was guilty of that last year when a friend invited me to shoot towards the end of the season on his property that had a decent population of wild pheasant but have been hunted hard all season. I was thinking of wild flushing birds and decided to leave my s/s 16 gauge and bring my significantly heavier Citori 12 gauge. I've been shooting my s/s well all season but somehow thought I needed more firepower for this outing. My pointing dogs did what they were supposed to do but the two chances I had were "ones that got away". Both times when the birds got up were between 20-25 yards and I know that I would have shot both of them with my familar s/s 16 gauge with 1 oz #6 and a backup of 1 1/8 oz of #5. In my experiences of chasing last season wild pheasants, they either flush wild at a further distance from you (that are in 30'06 distance) or learn how to run and hide better than your opening day birds. In the later situation, I think the birds will flush fairly close to the distances of the opening day birds but are just that much harder to flush. A 1 1/8 oz #5 load with either a mod or I/M choke will drop most birds at the 40 yard mark. Unless someone is that fantastic of a shot or has that good of dogs to find cripples, I let those birds beyond the 40 yard mark go and get them another day. IMO, it's not fair for these birds to go to waste or become coyote food.

Like everything we do Terry, it all comes down to what conditions are right then. I don't advocte "Hail Mary" shots either. However, some of these old Eastern swamp dwelling cocks are at least as cagey and evasive as any other older bird with a season or two behind it.

I still remember one particular bird I hunted nearly a decade ago along a rather narrow power line cut that ran through a boggy area covered with wild high bush cranberries, china berry bushes, hummacks of swamp grass, and other thickish cover, interspersed with soggy to knee deep holes and drainage runs.

That old bird obviously had dwelled there for several years. It had eluded no telling how many other hunters and dogs. It would usually run ahead of my Heidi until it knew it was in front of her by about 35 yards. Then, it would flush low and skirt around the available cover offering me no clean shot. It also would flush well out if it came to a more open area. It would never tower or fly higher than 20 feet off the ground.

The challenge consumed me, and I made a point of matching wits with this bird. Nothing worked. I'd try one tactic after another. I'd rest the bird a few days or so, then try again. Slowly, a pattern of behavior emerged. I could see that the bird would occasionally let Heidi work past it and double back in one particular spot. It obviously had found a hole to hide in that also helped mask its scent. Once I would work past the spot, it would emerge and run back over the ground I'd just covered.

So one afternoon, I decided to freeze just past that spot to see what would happen. I also loaded the Citori with a 1 ounce load of #6 and a 1-1/4 ounce crusher load of #4s. Heidi was in the thick stuff by then and did not pick up that I'd stopped. She continued tracking old scent down the line. I saw the bird emerge out an old hollow log covered by a tangle of old cut brush. I froze and followed it with my eyes until it disappeared into the cover. I waited for a bit. Finally, that old stinker cacked and flushed about 30 yards out low and away. The #6 shot caught him solidly at about 37 yards followed quickly by the 4's. He did not even flinch when the 6's hit, but dropped like a stone when the 4's impacted. Those big pellets penetrated him from stern to beak and killed him outright.

I still have his tail and his legs somewhere in the black hole I call my storage area. The spurs are as long as any I've ever seen. He was a very big bird too at well over 5 pounds. Maybe 5's might have dumped him, but those 4's certainly did. Sometimes, its best to go with the sure bet. I did that day and won that round. We each just gotta do what we think is best.