16ga.com ~ View topic - decion approaches

If you get a good dog the light is already on.

Guest

The main problem with this board (like most boards) is the tendency to put our own situation for the next person that poses a question. The originator of this post had indicated that he has never owned a pointing dog. I have seen a few times where a guy attempts to train his first dog and in most cases, it's a train wreck. Like I said in my earlier post, labs can be trained with bumpers and a nearby field but pointing dogs need more resources that the beginning dog trainer does not have access. I don't expect a dog to be started just because he/she is introduced to birds. There are several steps that need to be done to "sharpen" up the dog before he/she can be considered an okay "started" dog. While they're some stuff you can get from a book, a good trainer can work with a "Plan A" and move to other "Plan B" or "Plan C" depending upon each individual dog. A good trainer has the ability to "read" the dog that a beginning dog person just doesn't have a clue. Like I've mentioned in earliers posts, we have a dog for 8-10 years but it can get screwed up in just a few bad sessions.

Just my $.02

Joined: 04 Feb 2007 Posts: 6

Guest

I hunted over three Pudelpointers (one mine) and one GSP today........unbelievable! They all performed incredibly well. I am definitely hooked on the PPointers though.

Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 8

I grew up with Labs and Springers but for the past 25 years I've had gun dog bred English Setters. I find them to be great companions and excellent ruffed grouse dogs. My dogs are modest in size with females running 30-40lbs and males 40-55lbs. Generally very quiet and sweet dispositions. I'll never have another breed.

[/img]

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 371 Location: mpls mn

I got my first dog 2 years ago and I couldn't be happier. I wanted a german wirehair pointer because I liked the way they look and I wanted a dog that would point retrieved land and water and protect my house a little bit. There are a lot of breeds that will do that very well. I don't think breed really matters as much as training and picking a dog you like.With that said, I still feel breeds do exiblit different qualities. I think you'd have a tough time getting a jack russel to hold point.
I knew I didn't really know anything about training hunting dogs or even how a properly trained hunting dog should work (still don't know much)
I wanted a hunting dog but not necessarily a fire breathing hardcore trials dog
I found a breeder I liked (looked at 17) waited for puppies, they came I pick out one which is a whole other can of worms. Joined a local gwp club and found a trainer that would work with pointers as well as their owners -I think I have learned more than my dog has. I almost started balling when he pointed his first North Dakota wild rooster and retrieved it to hand. Dogs are cool when i went to picked a dog up i threw a pheasant wing in the yard and the guy selling the dogs open the door to let the puppies out, they all came running over and started pointing and honering each other at 7 week old! that was pretty cool.
No matter how much you spend on a puppy its just the tip of the iceberg
good luck with the dog search can't wait to hear what you end up with.

Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 30

you should find the breed that best captures the qualities you are looking for as well something you like to look at and is suited tempermentally and physically for the types of hunting you do.

your description is a lot like mine was almost 20 years ago.. I found what I was looking for in Large Munsterlanders Pointers. I haven't looked back since. Desire, cooperation and ability (point / retrieve) make them worth a look, especially the bonding/desire to please/cooperation with owners that make them the easy to train. anyway,

check out the Large Munsterlander Club of North America for more info about this wonderful breed.

but whatever choice you make.. do it because you like the animals.

all the best to you in your search
kevin

I didn't know this thread was started, I just got in from a training day with my dog.

We all have perceptions of the best dog, and it is different for each of us. My reasons will be different than yours. You'll know my preference by reading my signature.

If you have a clear idea about what dog, then the choice is pretty easy. If we mention dogs you've not seen run/hunt, go out with a training group and look at their dogs.

Another option is to go watch how different dogs run in a test such as a Hunt Test or NAHRA.

Have you decided between a pointer or retriever?

Training:
How much time can you devote to training?
If you haven't trained before, you will be learning as you teach your dog.
Are you comfortable with the cost of a Pro?

Personally, there are few other joys as wonderful as successfully training your dog. There are some people I train with that prefer taking their dogs to a Pro. While a good trainer can speed the process along, IMO it is more fun to train my own dog. It is slower though.

Don't make any assumptions about breed until you see that breed work.

Today, a new person to our group laughed when he heard I run a poodle. He was more respectful when he saw my dog run.

I envy you getting a new dog. I wish I had time for another dog at this point.

Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 129 Location: hong kong

Thank you for your input, it is obvious that I have come to the right place to mine for gold.

A little update. Yesterday I (with my wife) went out and looked at PP's and small Munsterlanders. We were impressed with both kennels, one was a larger more established operation complete with game reserve.
http://www.pineridgepudelpointers.com/pineridgebreed.htm

the other a small family operation.
http://smallmunsterlanders.net/contact.html

If you have had experience with these breeders I am interested in your feedback.

Both these breeds impressed me.
I liked the sizeof the Munsterlanders, but like this forum all those that I met at the game reserve raved about the PP capabilities.

I am going back to PineRidge next weekend to borrow and hunt over one of their dogs.

Keep your input coming, not only is your input giving me great insight, but it is also a great read! Very Happy

Thanks Alan.

As you can see there are as many opinions on the type of dog as there are hunting breeds. The majority seem to feel training your own dog is the way to go, and I will take some issue with that. Any of the dogs mentioned can make a decent bird dog, and I have hunted over most breeds mentioned for grouse and Woodcock. All have their merits and I have yet to have owned a dog I did not love, and I have owned 9.

Let me forewarn you that a great grouse dog is a rare animal. No one will ever sell a truly great grouse dog, for any amount of money. They are too rare, maybe 1 in 1,000. My best advice would be 1) take what a particular dog gives you, and some give more than others and 2) in training a little bit of sugar goes further than a little bit of vinegar. Enter this venture with realistic expectations, you will make many mistakes as a first time dog owner, and that is ok we all have.

I am retired and I have the good fortune to hunt grouse and woodcock at least 40-50 days each year. For a good deal of my working life I lived in Northern Michigan and that allowed me to hunt a similar number of days.

My personal preference for a grouse/woodcock/family dog is a Ryman English Setter. Others have posted their virtues and you can not go wrong. They really are the best. Living in the north you will not have the burr issues those further south encounter. You will mainly have to remove rasberry leaf strings and they slide right out.

I have also owned six GSP's, and briefly bred the line. The advantage of the GSP is primarily that you can be shooting woodcock over them at 6-9 months of age. Personally (and I love the breed), I do not find them to be as affectionate as Ryman Setters. Although I am not sure I believe most other Continental breeds also mature quickly.

As to training I agree that training your own dog is a great way to go and as previously mentioned all contact with the dog is ultimately training. I would strongly recommend that you have a competent trainer spend at least 2 weeks introducing the dog to birds and the shotgun. That period of time is adequate if you then have the time to follow up with frequent bird contact. I would call frequent, at least twice per week.

A GSP can receive this training at a very early age, 16-20 weeks depending on the dog. At this age you do run the risk of the dog being battered by a bird and not wanting to retrieve. An English Setter matures more slowly and you may have to wait until the dog is 18 months old before training can begin.

A GSP will retrieve ducks, but I would not recommend this in colder weather. They lack the double coat of a Lab and should not sit in the blind soaking wet after a retrieve.

Guest

Let us know how next weekend goes........you are going to be very impressed with the PP.

Here is a link to a list/description/links of the versitile breeds - which includes pointers and spaneils.

sorry ...
http://www.versatiledogs.com/breeds.html

My first PP came from Pineridge. He was a great bird finder but lacked alot of the qualities a PP should have. So just double check the breeding 3 generations deep. The only thing I didn't like about Mikes pedigree's was he showed alot of dogs from off shore that just said tested overseas. That didn't impress me I like a proven line in the field and that doesn't include planted birds at a preserve. The hunt next week will show you how they hunt and range and give you an idea of what they are like. And I agree with the above post a good grouse dog is very rare indeed. My 2 yr old PP bumps as many birds as he points but we hunt very thick tight cover he will improve with time. On the other hand if you hunted with him on a preserve you would be blow away by his performance. Good luck down at Mikes and drop me a note if you need any help.

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

Hey Chicago,

I considered myself a grouse and woodcock freak (by Ohio standards anyway) years ago when young, energetic and single but not up to your standard of experience. Had a dog that suited me. Since then the habitat and populations here are very much diminished and work and family commitments kept me from doing right by a dog so I'm without one now.

But.... the plan is to rejuvinate my interest to an even higher level if I'm fortunate enough to make it to retirement healthy in 3-5 years. I'll either relocate or travel alot but grouse and woodcock will again be my passion.

Question is this: Does your considerable experience warrant an opinion on American or French Brittanies? Particularily when compared to Ryman dogs and other breeds in general?

I agree that exceptional grouse dogs are rare as heck.

Thanks.