16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 06 Apr 2007 Posts: 50

Only one of many, but the one I am venting on today is this.

Looking through the aution sights at shotguns, SXS shoitguns. Most of my looking is just window shopping but occasionally I see something I want to know more about.

Invariaby either the owner doesn't post the chokes or they post the decimal measurements;ie, .014, .027

I dont' know about anyone else but for my 2 cents, would it kill these people to say Mod/Full or IC/Mod or whatever it is, instead of spouting decimal measurements? If they can read a micrometer they can tell the interested parties what the chokes are in words.

Its not that I can't figure it out for myself but I have to look it up and it would be so much easier if the listing stated it up front. In some cases they don't state the chokes at all. Once again, maybe its just me, but I won't by a gun (pre-invector gun) unless I know the chokes and barrel length.

What are thee people thinking??? ( or is my view point eschew? )

Rollcrimp,
I'd have to agree, I consider the chokes to be full/mod/IC instead of thousanths of an inch. Most of the shooters that are mearsuring tubes are target shooters IMO.
Charlie

By posting the chokes in decimel points, the seller is trying to show you how smart he is. So maybe you bid higher. Just my opinion.

And, when the seller doesn't list the constriction at all, he either doesn't care, doesn't know, or wants to ignore a less than optimal choke combo.

Again just my opinion, and worth exactly what you paid for it.

Joined: 06 Sep 2007 Posts: 154 Location: Kentucky

I guess I am one of the contrarians today. I much prefer the choke measurements as the different manufacturers have such a wide tolerance in their choke designations that simply stating modified , full etc doesn't tell me too much. Stating the amount of constriction gives me a much better idea of what to expect. I would admit that it wouldn't bee too hard to state both.

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

Well, if they invariably leave the choke marking off it must be the way to go! Smile

Many times the photography is good enough to show the choke markings, or screw chokes are involved, so they're avoiding redundancy in some cases.

In the case of older guns, especially, by posting the .000" measurements they are showing whether a choke has been altered, and dealers and others that have been messing with shotguns for a while, they probably got tired of people emailing or calling to ask for the .000" so they just put them up routinely.

A marking on a barrel doesn't mean much in reality to anyone who has spent time patterning shotguns. If you buy a choke tube today marked IC it will have about .010" of choke. I have a Model 12 with .009" of factory-original choke and it's stamped Mod. What is the choke of my gun? That depends on the shell fired through it. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, and to grab that gun and go hunting with it I would be happy for most uses since the actual range at which I might take any given shot will vary. Knowing what the gun will do with a particular shell will allow me to make a minor adjustment in either shooting sooner or letting the range increase a little, but it is generally not critical.

I like seeing the .000's marked, and will take a gauge with me when shopping at a gunstore or show. I have barrels with zero choke, and when I find a Model 37 16ga I'll want it with choke in the .020" range, what most would call Modified. If I buy one with a Mod marking on it and someone opened it up at some point in the past, I may wind up with a Cylinder barrel that I didn't really want. By then it's either too late or too much of a pain in the butt to correct. Knowing the .000's, or measuring them myself, will prevent that. It is a used gun market.

Some people buy a vehicle knowing only that it has a 4cyl, 6cyl or 8cyl motor. Newer vehicles usually have limited selections, but imagine buying an old Ford wagon and being told only that it has "a V8". Could be a 289, 302, 351, 428, or 460. It's still a V8. And a Full is always just a Full, a Mod is a Mod.

kgb

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

Member Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 425 Location: Big D

Kirk-

What was the source of that gauge you used on my Spanish doubles at the Flatwater?

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

Mike, that one is from galazan's. There are better ones out there, some that have interchangeable guides to cover all gauges (Cabela's here uses a set of those), and mine will only check 12's and 16's. It wouldn't even measure the Browning 16ga choke tubes that come in over .044", but that's not a big deal.

SPR310, I just picked Fords as an example, and the point remains that many folks would accept the term "V8" as sufficient to describe the motor in a car/truck. Beyond that, they don't care. Some people drive their car or truck without knowing what happens other than it goes forward when it's in gear and they step on the gas. The mechanical linkage of a throttle to a carburetor or throttle body is magic as far as they're concerned. Some people look at a choke on a barrel and don't care what actually is in the barrel or even what actually happens pattern-wise when they pull the trigger. They have faith in the markings and that's all that matters. I started out that way, and many of my father's friends are still that way. It's never hurt them one bit as far as they know.

I bought a gun via the internet that the seller informed me was marked Cylinder and Mod. When I got the gun I found .000 and .003". Someone had obviously changed that choke, but the Mod is still stamped on that barrel. I didn't really care, and just this past year got around to having the choke put back in. For a couple of years I just shot that Cyl and Skeet gun for all of my hunting except doves where I used a different gun. I knew what I had, but it worked just fine. I suppose I could have complained when I got the gun, but I was happy with it all the same. Seller would probably have claimed ignorance, and probably would have been correct. Either way I'd have had to believe him or get upset at something I couldn't prove anyhow.

I agree, no difference with .001" of choke, but what about .010"? That's the difference between my Mod barreled M12 and most any other industry standard of Mod. If I were needing .020" of choke to get a tight enough pattern for a particular use, I'd be less than thrilled to get .009".

Telling someone IC/Mod will satisfy probably 80-90 percent of buyers, and they won't care what's actually in the tube nor will there be a way to find out easily. Telling people .008/.025" will send some people googling choke charts, but when they find a range of values, they'll see there is no 100 percent link between the common markings and true choke constriction. Let alone type of constriction.

kgb

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

KGB: Just curious. How did you "have the choke put back in"?

Matt

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

Does that rate up there with measuring LOP from the front of the trigger guard to the recoil pad Evil or Very Mad

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

Matt, I sent it to Mike Orlen. He could have "backbored" the barrel up to the choke but I just asked for a jug choke and he made a cut behind the original choke to get the effect. HOAS, does that rate?

From a point 4.3" back from the muzzle, he cut a taper to open .012" from the original bore, and by a point 1" from the muzzle it was back to original bore diameter. This, plus the .003" of taper to the muzzle that the gun had when I bought it, makes about .015" of choke effect. I only patterned it with two particular loads, and the "new mod" barrel gave around 17 percent tighter patterns over the Cylinder barrel. With the difference between Cyl, IC, Mod and Full running around 10 percent depending on what you want to believe, it's about right. A spreader load in the Mod barrel will get me back to the as-bought choke that barrel had, if I want. My gun has the Cyl in the left barrel and the Mod in the right, so now I may have to think a bit more about which trigger to pull if I don't use a spreader, but it's not that difficult to manage. Or so I hope.

kgb

I like them chokes called out in decimals cause full, mod. and ect. are just words. I don't wanna buy one thats says full and mod. and when I stick my bore mic in it get a big suprise Rolling Eyes

Tight is good cause I can do it my way then. I feel but may be wrong that guys who call em out in .000's tend to be a bit more savy on shotgunnin. Just a Farmers opion, of course Smile

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

roll crimp--Go into the 'choke constriction' thread in the "Guns" section--there you will find, I believe, the answers to your questions not to mention the rather wide range of borings labeled with vague descriptions such as 'full', 'modified' ,etc.
Actually decimal borings are of limited use also. The only way to accurately know about the pattern YOUR gun produces is to shoot it at a pattern board---and patterns will vary with ammunition brand, shot size, velocity, shot composition. plating, etc. Even wider variations can be had if you reload.
Surely somebody has said all this before...................... Wink

Ron

Thanks Ron :

You put it just like it is , but giving the diminsions of a bore and choke leaves nothing to chance , unlike giving a vague term like , full, IM , Mod ,IC, Ect. and finding out it is ten point off as was expressed earlier, what a let down that is , no the bore and choke dia. is the only way to go for an idea of the performance the barrel might give .

Regards Charles