16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

O.K. guys, you'll have to trust me on this. I'm looking for a 20 ga. model 12 but I have a solid and logical 16 ga. reason for doing so. It's a long and esoteric story, and I don't type well, so I'll spare everyone and myself the extra words of all the details. Suffice it to say, I'm pretty certain my 16 ga. life will improve if I can procure the 20 ga.

I don't have anything to trade. I'm looking for a 20 ga. with a 28' plain barrel and the later version large oblong field forearm. The way they came from about 55' to 64' I believe. Modified or improved would be best but I can alter a full if need be. The barrel and forearm are more crirical to my needs.

I'll be checking the most common sales sites regularly and patiently. Thus far I have missed hooking up there. I've found that my most comfortable and satisfying deals have come from word of mouth and networking and I trust this bunch here as much as anywhere. This site has been essential to my shooting and reloading enjoyment since I've discovered my 16 ga.

So... I thought I'd throw this out and see what happens. If anyone can help please send me a pm.

Thanks in advance.

Thanks in advance.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

Alter a M12 Evil or Very Mad

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

Hoashooter (and anyone else who can opine),

I'm just talking about opening the choke from full to ic. That's technically altering it I guess...but I'm getting it to shoot. Enlighten me. I need some education on this. I figured it would hurt the resale a bit if I did that but I want to use it, quite possibly until I'm dead or can't shoot anymore! Hence if a bit of a loss happens to me or my heirs that's fine with me, I'd write it off to use and depreciation.

I appreciate an original gun too though but in this case, with a plain barrel field model in fair to very good shooter condition (when I find one) will it still make that much difference? I'm not talking 28 ga. original skeet gun here.

Maybe I should wait for a "shooter" that's possibly already been reamed that comes at shooter price rather than "alter" a real nice all original full choke that is not practical for my intended use.

I could use some advice on this. I've considered a couple of excellent original specimens that were the configuration I was looking for but were full choke. They were top dollar prices but not rip offs. So far I passed on them in part due to the choke issue. Would reaming gaurantee a major devaluation on that type of gun? I can sure live with a "shooter" that functions well. Maybe I should look for that animal rather than even consider altering a pristene copy marked "full".

Your opinion and experience on this would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 43

When I consider all the high grade L.C. Smiths, Parkers, Foxes and others that have had Briley chokes installed, I cannot believe opening the choke on a M-12 can hurt its resale value.

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

GG, my "Full" choked M12 16 was opened at some point in its life to .017" and it shoots just fine for what I want-65% with certain shells and Spred-R reloads for closer shooting. Don't worry about bunching anyone's panties by having a choke altered to suit you. If it's too much to bear, just do it and don't tell anybody! Very Happy

The way I look at it, most people don't check the actual choke of a gun-they just look at the stamping. Unless a barrel's been obiviously shortened it's not usually apparent that it's been modified. If you do alter a gun, reveal that when/if you sell it. Since you're looking at a fair to very good condition gun anyhow, what's the harm?

I don't know about the 20's but I have a 12ga and a 16ga M12 each with Mod barrels that from what I can tell are unaltered. Both have only .009" of constriction and Briley cuts their IC chokes in those gauges at .010". I think that's a very good choice for a lot of shooting, since varying shells can give a range of useful performance. If the 20's are choked that way, an original Mod barrel might be just what you want.

It sounds like the stock configuration will be a very important aspect for you, and I'd say that when you find something that fits (it'd be great to be able to shoot the gun first) don't worry about the choke marking. It might turn out to have been opened already. Not many internet sales outlets publish actual constrictions for the shotguns they sell. Even those that do don't seem to knock down prices for opened chokes.

My M21 was originally Cyl/Mod, the Mod in the right barrel. Someone had opened that choked barrel to .003", and someone had switched the triggers around so the front would fire the left/open choke first. I wasn't told about either of those things when I bought the gun. The triggers were easy to swap back in place, and that put them in line as well. I also had the choke restored to .014", and the gun again has two chokes approx 15% apart with a given shell I use. All I have to do is remember the front trigger shoots the tighter barrel--close trigger for close shots and far trigger for "far" shots.

Is an alteration that restores a gun's choke to original performance a sin? I don't know and don't care, I like my gun. Hope you like yours as well when you find it!

Kirk

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

http://notssmbbs.com/viewtopic.php?t=1955

Is this what you meant by oblong forearm or are you talking about the one with a completely flat bottom?

Try here also.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=70

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Yes kgb, that is the forearm I was referring to. That's what I have on my 16 and it fits my natural hand placement significantly better than any of other shorter types, including the flat one and the "corncob". I like the buttstock dimensions that come with that era oblong gun too. I think the slightly larger forend contributes to a more overall balanced feel too, as many of the short style forends feel light in the front end to me.

A skeet set up would work for me too but that's not in the budget for a few years until my little retirement buy-out comes. Actually, I've never handled a genuine small framed model 12 skeet gun but I've observed that most are 26 inchers. I've got a feeling the balance of an oblong 28 inch plain barrel might fit my style just as well or better. I know weight is good on a target gun, but I do all low gun skeet and usually with a delay and am used to a lighter gun. A target model 12 is in my future but not soon.

Regarding the choke comments, I will make sure I end up with what fits my needs regardless of what the barrel says. I would never sell a gun to anyone without telling them all I knew about the choke, regardless if it was worth less dollars if mis-marked on the barrel. I know tons of guns are sold that way though.

Kgb, I agree 100% on your observations about the factory Winchester modified chokes being a little more open than current standards and I have found that to be an advantage that suits my shooting activities and style just fine. My 16 ga. is original and it too is .009. I called Winchester and they advised me that it was within their original specs. I get every skeet target I deserve with it and plenty of feathered game. I've made some long shots on dove with it and never feel over or under choked for anything I do. Modified will suit me fine in the 20 if that's what exists on the gun when I find one.

Again, thanks to all for the advice. The search is active!

Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Posts: 68 Location: MN

Sent you a PM

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

Thanks grousewoods. I answered with a pm to you.

Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Northeast Ohio

Many thanks grousewoods. Please check your pm whenever it's convenient. Not a high priority message!