16ga.com ~ View topic

Member Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 592 Location: Minnesota

I did a search but couldn't find anything regarding the TM 1 1/16oz compared to the 1 1/4oz shells - both #5s - I'm not sure I've seen a 1 1/16oz load before and not sure what I think about it - anyone have any experience with these - pros/cons? I need something I can shoot on public land in North Dakota at roosters in Oct (usually 25-35 yard range) and then again in late Nov (usually 30-40 yard range).

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 863 Location: NoDak

Hey Patrick and Happy New Year to you! I'm a bit curious on why you would need TM on public lands here in NoDak? If you hunt PLOTS or WMA's you don't need Non-Tox shot. Only on WPA's.

As to your question on 1 1/16 loads - as a matter of fact I was out yesterday and used my 2 1/2" chamber english SxS using B&P's 1 1/16 of #6 - it got a limit of roosters with no problems - all the birds went down dead. You just have to pick your shots (like with any load). I don't take any shots over 40yds, but then again I hunt over a GSP so shots are not that long.

The more I experiment with different loads, I'm convinced that anything over 1 1/8 is overkill, most birds to include winter roosters will go down with an ounce of shot to 1 1/8oz. I do however like #5 shot as my all around game getter (B&P were out of 5's, but the 6's worked fine).

As a side note I have a partner who shoots a 870 30" full and reloads 1 7/8oz 3" #4 -claims he can kill birds out to 70yds!! Well, one of his 60yd shots when I paced it off was only 30yds! The birds was really shot up. He either wings them or centers them with the bird being shot up.

The one thing I have found out is you need to have confidence in what you shoot - if shooting 3" mags is your bag, so be it. I myself am happy with lighter loads. It's up to the shooter.

Hope this helped. Again, Happy New Year!!

Good Luck!!!

Greg

Member Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 592 Location: Minnesota

Greg - thanks for the reply.

I do mainly hunt PLOTS which I plan on shooting FIOCCHI GP 1 1/8oz #5 but we sometimes push a WPA or the Federal land on the river bottoms so I need a small supply of steel for those situations. Since I hunt MN roosters a couple of times a year on WMA I need steel there also.

Our hunting party has two close working Labs which give us close (25-35 yards) shooting but you never know with those late season birds - sometimes all they give you is 35-45 yard flushes - sometimes I shoot at them if I have a good angle but as typical for roosters it's more often straight away flyers.

Being new to shooting the 16ga I have yet to develop my own observations and experiences with the performance of the gauge. Over the last three years I've been shooting my SIG TR30 20ga with 3inch 1 1/8oz #6 Hevi-shot so I've had to learn to pick my shots beyond 35 yards. For roosters I usually don't feel real comfortable shooting beyond 35 or maybe 40 yards depending on the angle. But I would guess 80% of the birds are straight away shooting.

Back in the days of shooting my 12ga at roosters and decying waterfowl I would usually shoot 1 1/8oz #4 steel or 1 1/8oz #5 Kent TM. The steel loads were nothing more than frustrating as birds were hit but managed to have enough life to keep going. It bothered my so much I don't think I would shoot steel again at any bird. The Kent TM loads were in improvement and seemed to have similar, although still not at the performance level of lead in my opinion, to lead. But at least with Kent I gained more confidence the bird would come down.

So, my question is based on my lack of experience with the 16ga and loads with 1 1/16oz and 1 1/4oz. For me, and I realize others have a different opinion, I like the pellet count of a #5 or #6 versus a #4. More pellets on the bird has always = more dead birds. My shoulder tells me 1 1/4oz sounds heavy but I don't want to be shooting 1 1/16oz that doesn't perform well either. Maybe I'm thinking too much about this and the reality is the difference between 1 1/16 and 1 1/8 is not a huge difference. But unless I'm missing something I don't seem to be able to find a 16ga 1 1/8 non-toxic prem load anywhere.

If a 1 1/16oz load will kill a rooster dead at 35 or 40 yards that sounds like the right load for me.

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 863 Location: NoDak

Hi Pat, got you cover now. I also use GP 1 1/8 in #5 - My favorite load for a 16 - they sure do work well.

I don't know a good source for TM - All I know is I HATE steel in 16's - 15/16oz just don't cut it.

Try Cheaper Than Dirt - I did pick up some Bismuth for one of my 12's for not a bad price. You could also try Cabelas.

Hope someone else will chime in here.

Good Luck!!!

Greg

I really haen't noticed any difference in the 1 1/16 and 1 1/4 oz. TM. I have to use non tox on the federal land which is all I have close. The TM #5 shot seems to bring the birds down hard. I have used SK1 and SK2 with good sucess with 1 1/4 oz. Then I some times move to 1 1/16 oz. with an IC/IM. I stocked up before everything went nuts so I will survive for many years. The last TMatrix I saw was Ballistic Products web sight. It was high priced, but for a small supply its better than missing a chance to hunt legally.
Good luck,
Ron

Guest

I think we all can agree that the world starts and ends with lead. Unfortunately, there are several places that require non Tox which drastically affects which gun and ammo we should use. IMHO, steel in a 16 is a total waste of time and a big crippler of birds. I shoot a 12 gauge 3" with Kent 1 1/8 oz @ 1450 fps. I'm very confident with that load especially with my Briley extended tubes in a light modified (don't like the factory Beretta tubes). Hevi shot is pretty amazing in that it has a higher density than lead. The only problem is that Hevi is so hard; I would be worried about shooting it in my nice Italian double. But if you put it through a heavy barreled gun with moderate chokes, you can do some awesome shooting. TM in #5 seems to be like #5 1/2 in lead due to lesser pellet density. It's good stuff and I don’t have any qualms about putting the 1 1/16 oz since it more about pattern density and is a close equivalent of #5 lead in 1 1/8 oz. If you want to get real an*l about having the right loads, try some 1 oz #6 Bismuth for your first shot and backup with the 1 1/16 oz TM. I believe you'll have a deadly combination as long as you're taking your pheasant at a 25-35 yard range...

Member Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 451 Location: La-Tx

I have shot a bunch of the T/M 1 1/16 and the 1 1/4 oz shells . Both are fantastic shells that I can't tell any difference from shooting top of the line lead shells in the good old days. Both will drop mallards out to 50 yards.

It's a shame how much it cost now. When I got mine it was under $12.00 a box.

Member Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 592 Location: Minnesota

This article from Delta Waterfowl is a couple of years old but has an interesting analysis.

"Revealed: The most lethal Mallard Loads"
http://www.deltawaterfowl.org/magazine/2005_01/01_shooting.php

"Of the 513 loads tested, 440, or 86 percent, were rejected for failing one or both of the established criteria detailed below. Many of the “failed” loads—the .410 and 28-gauge—were never intended to be used for ducks, nor were some of the loads with very small or very large pellets.

Keep in mind that virtually all of the loads will cleanly kill mallards under the right conditions. But only the ones that made the “pass list” can be counted on to kill 90 percent of the time at distances greater than 35 yards.

Of the 73 loads that passed, only 70 are waterfowl loads, the other three being lead loads used for comparative purposes. There are no degrees of passing or failing, no just-missed or “almost passed”. Those determinations are left to the discretion of the reader based on the range of the shots they take.

Eight loads qualified in Class 1, which means they had sufficient oomph (Energy Density) and coverage at distances greater than 45 yards. There were 21 loads in Class 2, which means they had sufficient ED and coverage between 40 and 44 yards. Class 3 loads were effective at distances ranging from 35 to 39 yards, and 41 loads made that designation. (Hunters who limit themselves to 30-yard shots may find that loads not on the list also are sufficiently lethal. See instructions with chart.)

The Kent Cartridge Company topped the list of manufacturers with 22 passing loads—19 Impact Tungsten Matrix (ITM), two Fasteel and one Hevi-Steel. Remington had 14 HEVI-Shot loads on the pass list along with one steel load. The Bismuth Cartridge Company had 17 loads on the list, Federal had eight steel and five tungsten-iron loads that passed and Winchester had three steel loads.

Most of the 70 loads that made the pass list were 12-gauge (55), but nine 10-gauge, four 20-gauge and two 16-gauge loads also qualified.

Of the 12-guage loads that made the pass list, 22 are 3½ -inch, 19 are 3-inch and 13 are 2 3/4-inch.

Of the optimum loads listed, 18 were No. 4 shot and 20 were No. 5. Those two pellet sizes represent 54 percent of the loads on the list."

Both the Kent TM 1 1/16 and 1 1/14oz loads were rated "pass" based on this method.

Member Joined: 11 Dec 2007 Posts: 6 Location: SE Texas

Patrick,
I just started shooting the Kent TM 1 1/16 oz #5 load over the holidays at mallards and woodies in the flooded timber. This is called the Pheasant Load.
I have no complaints at all.
I ordered mine from Macks Prarie Wings @ $25.99 a box.

If I could find an Invector choked barrel for my Sweet, I'd be shooting steel.

Good Luck and Happy New Year