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Member Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 371 Location: mpls mn

Ok guys I need some input here on a 16 gauge upland load
I have accumulated a good number of 16 gauge Fiocchi , Federal and black Remington ton hulls. I want to load up some upland 1 1/8 once 1300 fps + loads for pheasants and sharp tails these loads will be used in cold weather I will use nickel plated shot 5's for pheasant 7's for sharpies powder and wads will be determinded accordingly
I will be shooting these out of M12’s and A5’s
thanks rp

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

I would either buy the latest Lyman reloading manual, or go to the different powder makers sites. There are all kinds of loads to fit your requirements. That way you can decide for yourself.

The Remington SP-16 is the only wad that can fully contain 1-1/8 ounce of shot in its cup. Since you are using nickel plated shot, it does not make a lot of sense to use a wad with a shallow cup that would subject the pellets to bore scrub.

The problem is the SP-16 is a bit smaller in diameter than is ideal for use in Cheddite and Fiocchi hulls. However, one powder comes immediately to mind--IMR 800X. It is a very coarse or large disc powder, that would resist migration. It is also flexible enough to push 1-1/8 ounce of shot at 1300FPS without overly high pressure. It also burns very well over a wide outside temperature range. However it does not meter well, so weigh all charges on a scale. You can use a pistol powder measure ste to dump a slightly light charge and use a trickler to get them exact reasonably fast. Just bypass the powder feed stage on your press. A box or two of these slammers will probably be all you need and can stand. They are not for high volume target shooting anyway. The extra time taken to weight the charges will be time well spent.

I am assuming you intend to shoot this load in a modern, strongly built gun. I would not recommend it in an older classic or lightly built custom double. Your gun mightl develop endshake in no time if you do. Stick to a good American pump gun or autoloader, a strong O/U like a Citori, a Rizzini, or one of the late Turkish models, or a post WWII Merkel double. Some of the French guns can take these loads as well. That is as far as I will go here. Everything else is suspect until proven strong enough IMO.

(Please folks, don't jump with the post like a screaming meemie 'cause your gun is not listed. Just suggest that it will handle the fodder as well. I can't think of every gun ever made that will handle heavier shooting ammo. Thanks Very Happy

)

The loads listed below are from the IMR/Hodgedon manual. I also know the Fiocchi and Cheddite hulls have similar if not a bit bigger internal capacity than the Federal hull. However, they have plastic base wads instead of fiber ones which are somewhat more efficiant and can raise pressures. You could probably use the Cheddite or Fiocchi hulls with maybe a 5% to 10% charge reduction without getting in trouble, but 1300FPS might be a bit optimistic.

However, #5 shot hits plenty hard enough at 1250 FPS for even big pheasant out to 40 yards. I would accept the lower velocity range. It will also be a lot more pleasant to shoot too. 1-1/8 ounces at 1300FPS out of a 6.5 pound gun will rock your world after a 1/2 dozen or so.

You can also get by very well with a 1 ounce load of finer shot like #6 or #7 shot, so I'd consider working up a lighter load for birds smaller and less tough than pheasant or some of the big praire grouse. It will be an easier load to shoot for both you and the gun as wellGood luck. Let us know how you make out.

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Shell: 2 3/4" FEDERAL HI POWER PLASTIC PAPER BASE WAD SHELLS (IMR)

Load Type Gauge SW Order Shot Wt. Powder Primer Wad Powder Wt. (Gr.) Pressure Vel. (ft/s)

Lead Shot 16 1.125 1 1/8 oz. PB Rem. 209P Rem. SP16 21 10,500 PSI 1200
Lead Shot 16 1.125 1 1/8 oz. PB Win. 209 Rem. SP16 20.5 11,000 PSI 1200
Lead Shot 16 1.125 1 1/8 oz. SR 7625 Fed. 209A Rem. SP16 22 11,000 PSI 1200
Lead Shot 16 1.125 1 1/8 oz. SR 7625 Rem. 209P Rem. SP16 23 9,000 PSI 1200
Lead Shot 16 1.125 1 1/8 oz. SR 7625 Win. 209 Rem. SP16 23 10,800 PSI 1250
Lead Shot 16 1.125 1 1/8 oz. 800-X Fed. 209A Rem. SP16 22.5 11,000 PSI 1300
Lead Shot 16 1.125 1 1/8 oz. 800-X Rem. 209P Rem. SP16 24.5 10,100 PSI 1300
Lead Shot 16 1.125 1 1/8 oz. 800-X Win. 209 Rem. SP16 22.5 10,800 PSI 1300

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 371 Location: mpls mn

thank you-
This would be of course a hunting load for wild roosters
The limit in MN is 2 bird per day - two shells Very Happy

The limit in North and South Dakota is 3 birds per day- 3 shells Very Happy

Not high volume of shooting and as mentioned in my post I will be using a M12 and or A5 a both are good condtion modern firearms.
Any word on the bp/ giullandi(sp?) 16 gauge wads with the fiocchi hull? [/code]

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

Here is a pic of the the Remington SP with 1 oz. of shot alongside the Gulandi Sporting 16 wad (SG 16). As you can see there is a vast difference in cup volume. The SG 16 holds around 3/4 oz of shot. I taped the petals shut on the SP 16 so the shot would not spill out. a 1 1/8 oz load overfills the wad only slightly.

Matt[/img]

Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 38 Location: midwest

Do not let the Gulandi wad fool you.

It is a solid performer even with a 1 1/8 oz. load. My pattern testing has placed the "bad short cup" thingy solidly to rest.

The Rem. wad fits very sloppy in most of the straight walled hulls of today (Multi-Hull, Activ's, Fiocchi, Cheddite, etc...) and seals the poorest of anything you can stuff in a hull. When used with fine powders such as 7625 the powder migration can be AWFUL with the Rem. 16 wad.

BP (and other suppliers) also sells 'Z-16' wad...similar wad with a bit longer shot cup. As with the shorter one shown above they both have good, double seals and seat firmly. I've both with great success...including fragile bismuth pellets (with the Z-16)

I have several loads that push the payload and velocity you want. Use them all the time here in Iowa and back home in South Dakota. Killed over 40 roosters this season with these "rotten" wads.

The three best powders I've found for these loads are 800-X, Longshot, and 7625.

What is your pleasure and I'll supply data that's worked for me.

Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 90 Location: SE USA

I do not know everything but a truer word has not been spoken of the SP16 wad.

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

The Rem. SP16 as well as the R16 were never designed to fit in the larger straight wall hulls like the Cheddite and Fiocchi. The SG16 is a much better fit for these cases. The SP16, the R16 and the old WAA16 were designed for the tapered Remington hull and the old WAA hull.

Matt

Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 38 Location: midwest

Correct...both of which type of hulls are getting to be like 'hen's teeth'.

I've taken the time to load myself down with thousands of 16 ga hulls of every kind. Wads too...even with this it's been a over a year since I ran into a stash of good, old AA 16 hulls. However, with the right wads the hulls of today don't really leave me missing them much.

That not withstanding, the first post specifically asked about hulls that the Rem. wad would not be good in its application.

I was just saying so....

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 371 Location: mpls mn

I am interested in using Longshot, and 7625 although powder is cheap and can be purchased in small quantities. One more question has anyone sent out loads to be pressure tested and speed tested and if so how do they compare to listed loads?
rp

There is a solution to every problem. I found out a quick and easy one for the ill fitting wad problem. I use a 1 inch square piece of lawn and leaf bag placed squarely and evenly under the wad base and on the mouth of the wad guide, then ram it all into the case. the patch stops migration and does not raise pressures to any meaningful degree. This little trick lets me use any wad meant for tapered or thick walled cases in any straight wall case. The bags are made of the same basic plastic as the wad, so fouling is not a problem either.

We 16 gauge folks need to have as many options as we can get. The SP-16 does a great job and the patterns I get from ammo loaded with them are usually excellent to superb. If the guy who wants to give his SP-16's away still wants to, I'll trade him a couple of lawn and leaf bags for them. Wink

Problem solved.

Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 90 Location: SE USA

That was sell a few bags of SP-16's. Wink

Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 90 Location: SE USA

I will count them up and list them for sale in a day or so.

Don't have time right now.

Member Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 40 Location: California

The Rem SP-16 and the R-16 wads in my possession measure around 0.635" dia over the powder cup. The Gualandi SG-16 and the Z-16 sold by many runs around 0.660" and a tad more over the little ring - again over the powder cup. Thus you can see that the Rems are indeed loose in european hulls.

What you really want if you can find them is the old Activ G-32 wad. It is 0.660" over the powder cup just like the other wads for the Cheddite/Fiocchi/multimetal hulls and has a shot cup that is almost as deep as the SP'16"s, being 0.870" deep vs. 0.970" deep for the SP-16.

For the record, the SG-16 shotcup depth is 0.650" and the Z-16 is 0.710". By contrast, the Rem R-16 depth is 0.850".

I have checked how much of the shot column by weight of the load will be completely contained in the shotcup. For the SP-16 it is 0.996 oz. For the G-32 it is 0.893 oz.

The overall length of the SP-16 wad is 1.545" from the top of the wad petals to the BASE of the shotcup; what the powder rests on, not the bottom of the wad. For the G-32 it is 1.490" so the G-32 is a shorter wad and provides more room for internal components. It is (was) a heavy load wad. Too bad they are no longer around. They make a great wad for heavy hunting loads.

The measurements were taken from wads in my posession. Mostly they are old. Your measurements may differ from newer components.

P

Member Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 40 Location: California

Sorry guys, screwed up. The SP-16 length is 1.545" from the wad petals to the BASE of the POWDER CUP, not the shotcup as I wrote. For the G-32 it is 1.490" - again from the wad petals to the BASE of the powder cup. By the way, the powder cups on the wads are shaped differently and so how the wad actually sits over the powder and at what length is actually a bit different for different wads.

Sorry for the misinfo. When you get old you loose it!!

P