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Charles Hammock thought I should tell you all about this.

At the invite of a fellow 16ga.'er, I went and shot at a bunch of clays.

I wanted to work on my shooting- Last few times I went out I stunk it up bad. Charles had just sent me an article from Double Gun Journal by Buz Fawcett. Fawcett is a Churchill type intinctive shooter instructer. Rather than using our standard "rifle" stance," he suggests that we bring the gun foot slightly forward of the other and stand basically upright. Feer pretty close together. This allows the shooter to swing with shoulders level almost 300 degrees. It also provides a better pocket for the gun mount.

At any rate. I read it, I tried it, I liked it. I felt that I had a much easier swing and better vision of the clays. And OlSouthern Lawyer can attest I busted a heck of a lot more birds. I'm a hunter that shoots clays. I shoot clays because I like to hunt and harvest game. I know that this may not work on all the trap, skeet, clays presentations, but it was pretty damn effective for what I perceive as "bird shots."

Just my experience. Thought it might spark a bit on conversation

Ash

Ash,

I adopted the Churchill-style after many years of developing and perfecting my own bad habits. The change has made a tremendous difference in my performance on clay birds, as well as live birds. I first learned of the Churchill style after visiting Fieldsport in Traverse City, MI. Brian Bilinski, of Fieldsport, recommended his instructional video (The Art of Shooting Flying) to me on one of my visits. After practicing with the video, I bought Churchill's book on shotgunning to learn more about the technique. The book spends a considerable amount of time dedicated to proper gun fit and proper gun mount including foot placement. The book was most helpful, because it identified common mistakes and helped to correct my bad habits. I found the book to be entertaining as well as informative. I often revisit the chapters on gun mount, foot placement, and swing prior to hunting season or when I have a poor day of shooting. I hope to someday enroll in one Fieldsport's shooting schools for further instruction on shooting and gun fit.

I still get comments about my "awkward upright" stance from some fellow skeet shooters. I haven't been discouraged because I am busting more clays than previously. The biggest improvement I have seen has been in the field. I primarily waterfowl hunt, so the more upright forward facing posture is conducive to shooting from a boat or blind.

Thanks for posting your comments. Not many folks in my neck of the woods are familiar with Churchill, so it's nice to share my experience with fellow shotgun enthusiasts.

Cheers,
Chris

After learning the wrong way to stand and shoot on my own as is so typical of how the majority of us seem to, I was fortunate enough to be given a few lessons from a real wingshot in the early '80s at the original but now closed Orange County Trap and Skeet Club just North of Buena Vista and Disney World on Turkey Lake Road.

The first thing he taught me was a comfortable and somewhat relaxed stance. He oriented me so my feet were slightly less than shoulder width apart and comfortably angled so I was quartering about 45 degrees toward the center pole on the skeet field. Being a rightie shooter, my left foot was ahead of my right and my weight was a bit more on the ball of the front foot, but balanced between both legs for good comfortable body support. He then instructed me to shift my feet a bit so I was quartering toward the point I expected to hit the target and to unlock my knees and relax.

I learned to shoot somewhat erect, but not straight and tall like the old timers used to advocate. However, neiher am I hunched as forward as some folks. My body is relaxed a bit with little to no tension, so I can adjust my stance in a split second. I have shot this very balanced and comfortable way ever since mastering it, and it works extremely well for me for just about any type of wingshooting.

In the field, I eventually learned to swing my feet around and plant them so I'm in the stance where I will be actually hitting the bird. This is done as the gun is coming around and up to the shoulder almost parallel to the ground, but angled up at the target very slightly with the muzzle automatically tracking the target. My body and gun come around and together at the same time in one coordinated move to and through the bird. The gun simply falls in line with my right eye just prior to or about the time the shot breaks, depending on how much swing is involved in making the shot. The forward allowance and the trigger pull is automatically calculated by my subconsious. There is no conscious thought or calculating or trying to see the lead. Practice has elliminated all of this long ago.

I also shoot skeet, 5 stand, and sporting clays this way. I shoot trap with a pre-mounted gun, but my body is always oriented toward where I expect to hit the mark, and the swing and trigger pull is as automatic as the rest.

The best way to perfect this style of shooting is on a skeet field shooting low gun. Forget the score. Learn how to hit the mark in a fairly relaxed and comfortable way. Your confidence and your comfort will come hand in hand as you learn to relax into the shot. Good to excellent scores will come along as well. The confidence is the most important part of the whole thing. Shoot with it and you will become a very effective shot. Have a doubt and you will always be too uptight and you will miss more than you should. It all starts with where you place your feet. Good luck.

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Ash and Chris,
I'd be curious to know how you each would categorize your body shapes.
I'll wager you're both shorter and stouter than average, just like Churchill.

Pete

I resemble that remark.

I think that is one of the reasons that I like doubles, no lengthy receivers. I can get decent barrel lengths and still swing 'em. 28" barrel on a Benelli or a Beretta is a whole lot more gun than I want to swing-- weight be damned.

I do have a question for you though. Why would tall and slim people not benifit from 300 degrees of movement, solid mount, etc. Maybe it is more pronounced in those of us who are gravitationally friendly, but the concept, and practice, seems reasonable and practical to me.

But like everyone says, whatever allows you to consistantly hit the bird.

ash

Ash, there is no particular body type that does not benifit from a relaxed quartering stance. As you say, 300 degrees of lateral range is benificial to everyone. Stiff and starchy went out with the high button collars of the late Edwardian era.

By the way, I have a theory that it was these foppish and excessively high Edwardian collars that influenced gun mounting and shooting styles among some of the well to do sports in England and the Eastern regions of the USA. The shooting style adapted for them influenced folks into the early 20tyh century. Shooting while wearing one would be like doing so while wearing a neck traumaThompson collar. However, there was a time that a well dressed man would not be seen in public without one. The stock styles developed to allow for the collar continued long after the collars were out of fashion.

I can't explain why, but shooters are often easily influenced more by style than function. For instance, consider how popular overly high roll over combs on rifles became during the 1960's. Today, we view them as ridiculous, but there was a time folks damanded them. It made little sense to me then and now, but there it is.

However, there were those shooters who refused to be slaves to fashion and who perferred shotgun stocks more typical of the modern, more anatomically functional design we have today. Annie Oakley was one of these folks who lived through the Edwardian age. She never shot while wearing a high starched collar. She may have posed with a gun while wearing one, but most of the photos and early movies of her shooting showed her wearing a plain collared shirt and skirt or dress. Her stance was also well balanced and quartering toward the mark with just enough forward lean to get her well into the gun. Her face was down on the comb, her eyes were parallel to the ground, and there was just enough forward tilt of her head to help her stay in the gun through the shot or shots if she were shooting doubles. in short, her stance and style were exactly like those of the best shooters today.

If we look to excel we will eventually develop the correct funtional way of doing things regardless of fashion. Our bodies win out in the end. In short, learn to shoot comfortably and in a relaxed confidant manner. If you do, you will automatically learn to stand in a way that allows you 300 degrees of lateral range. However, learning first from an excellent shot will always shorten the time it takes to do so.

"I resemble that remark."
Good one, Ash Very Happy

Foursquare,

At 6 foot tall, I guess I wouldn't call myself short, but I am stout (as you so eloquently put it). I believe, and I agree with Ash, the Churchill method offers advantages to shooters of all statures. The gun mount and body posture advocated by Churchill just feels more comfortable and more natural to me. As 16gg pointed out, being comfortable, relaxed, and confident is the probably the key. The book and video instruction helped my to identify my bad habits more quickly than through trial and error. The self instruction was important to me because living in the Michigan's UP means I don't have easy access to highly qualified shooting instructors.

Cheers,
Chris

Hello all:

Foursquare to answer a question of yours , Ben who was trained by Fawcett is 6' 4" the same as myself we have VERY LONG ARMS and of slinder build .

Ben taught me this method and you have to remember I shot trap quite well but had a hard time hitting close in birds in cover , premounted gun is not very conducive to hunting . I was way too slow and uncordinated in fast gunmount.

Now I am not the worlds best at this type of shooting , but you will have to go some to keep up with me now, thanks to Ben the Ole Man finally taught me something , " Smiling " This method is something that WORKS I have shared this with several and it has improved everyones shooting enough that they have all thanked me for sharing it with them.

Regards Charles

On analyzing my field shooting stance, I realize that my preferred method is to anchor one foot securely into a badger hole while simultaneously using the other foot to trip over a rock or clump of vegetation. The fluid upper body action that results (the untutored have mistaken it for "falling") ensures proper gun barrel speed and follow-through, at least for a critical split second. CAUTION: When this stance is chosen, proper awareness of positon of hunting partners/dogs/everything else is absolutely critical (as it ever is), and many otherwise easy shots must often be aborted.

I did not know badgers could fly. Live and learn.