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Member Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 13

I am new to the shotgun reloading and would like some guidance. I have reloaded for NRA high power rifle matches for years but need some help on getting my reloading equipment for shotshells. I would like informatiion on what press, extra tools, books, componets that our memebers have used and like. I have always liked the 16ga and recently puchased a Citori 16ga that i like very much but would like to load for myself. It may be a bit bullheaded but i always think i can do better than factory loads. Question

Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 38 Location: midwest

It is hard not to offer up MEC as the loader of choice...but it is not my first choice.

I own MEC's...I have no issues with them. My 9000G spits out simple 12 ga. target loads by the hundreds and does so PDQ.

Having said that my unit of choice for my hunting loads is from P&W. These units offer 'fine adjustments' that leave factory quality shells that really cannot be duplicated with a MEC.

With my 375 Duo-Matic I have three different heads. One head is 2 3/4" and 3" 12 gauge, the next is 2 3/4 and 3" 20 ga. and the last is 28 ga and 16 ga. As all the adjustments for each shell type is done at the tool head, you can swap out between 3" 12 magnums to 2 3/4" 16 ga loads in less than two minutes with NO...ZERO adjustments and start loading.

Of course...the P&W is much more expensive. I feel it's worth it. But that, as they say, is just MHO.

If your only looking to load 10 or so boxes of shells for hunting each year...it might be hard to justify the P&W when the MEC would do darn near as good for much less $$.

As for data...I've use data and components from 'Ballistic Products'. They offer 16 ga. specific data manuals. Their "Pheasant Magic" book offers some additional data. I have revisions going back 15 years. Graf and sons will offer some of the same 16 ga wads often with better bulk pricing.

Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 311

For a single stage press the MEC Sizemaster is the only real choice. The primer feed option alone makes it worth the money over the 600 JR. Altho I haven't purchased it I would buy the Lyman 5th Edition shotshell manual if I were in your shoes. I haven't read any negative reviews of the Lyman manual but since I don't own it I don't know how much 16 data it has.

Enjoy.

Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 38 Location: midwest

Lyman's 5th (or any addition) is very generic...and for the 16 ga is almost not even there...a few basic recipes just to be able to say they included the 16 gauge in the book, IMHO.

I've looked over the Lyman's my friend bought. All info is pretty simplistic. It's nothing I'll be purchasing.

For an 'overveiw' of reloading and reloading techniques...get a copy of "Advantages" from Ballistic Products. Very well written with a crisp style...it will keep you interested and it's very informative. They will show you how to make better shells.

16 ga. data...IMHO there is no substitute for the data offered by Ballistic Products. I've used all kinds of data from BP for over 20 years from Steel, to bismuth, to hevishot, and, of course, lead. I was born in South Dakota and moved to Iowa after college. Pheasants are my passion. BP offers loads potent enough to anchor wild roosters running and flushing wild in cattail sloughs. Most other data seems to be made for game farm/petting zoo pheasants. I regularly kill 40+ pheasants...WILD pheasants...a year. My best year being 63 roosters. All taken with 16 ga data from BP. The last day of the season here in Iowa the snow was waist deep in most cover and the roosters were flushing long before the dog could even get a fix on them. All the light cover was knocked flat and the heavy cover isolated. The birds knew the dog and I were coming well ahead of time. I want loads that rip birds from the sky...not just gently roll them over.

They even have data for 16 gauge hevishot reloads using their MM-16 wad...won't find that in a Lyman's. I used this with 'hevi' 6's this year in my new 16 ga BPS. It was a joy to stand in the marsh with a light gun and be able to kill mallards at 40+ yards.

Do what you like...perhaps buy both...you can never have too much info. I simply found "Advantages" from BP to be much more informative and way more fun to read.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

I take BP's information or data with a grain of salt.
As the 16 gauge low pressure group has proven their dat to be under stated. If your shooting modern guns, then do with their info as you please.
If your shooting older (Damascus guns) be carefull.

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

Old Dog: You can join the low pressure reloading group for about $25. You will get hundreds of 16 ga. loads using a wide variety of components. Also, don't be fooled by the name of the group. There are as many normal pressure loads as "low" pressure loads. Since you already load metallic cartridges I assume you have a good quality powder scale.

With the limited components we currently have available you will probably end up buying hulls/wads by mail order.

Let us know what type of shooting you are reloading for. Target, hunting, etc.

Matt

Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 38 Location: midwest

Hear this stuff all the time about BP...

BUT...no one ever offers up any loads with data and pressure discrepancies.

Mostly word of mouth and the odd reloader that figures if some is good...a lot is better and then to 'modify' a recipe by adding powder with a soup ladle.

Funny...if BP puts out such awful data...they should have been sued and shut down long ago with a string a 'blown' guns in the wake.

As stated...I've used their data from my high school days back in the 80's. Loaded up their early steel data in 1983...I'm shocked I'm still here and breathing.

Their data is safe. ONE THING...I might...MIGHT...agree with...if you've got a 40-60 year old gun you might be best served to find data more suitable for frail framed folks or people recovering from surgery.

You want low pressure loads...don't pay $25 or any amount. Just look up any free, current data printed today. Most of the data is so de-tuned (for legal considerations) that it probably could be shot from a McDonald's 'twisty' straw without rupturing it.

Plus...the last ed. of the 16 ga. Manual has tons of 6000-8000 psi loads from 7/8 to 1.0 oz as well. As much as BP is made out to be the death of your guns...plenty of tame data as well.

Depends if you want it all. A closed mind is an empty one...seeing that more and more these days.

Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posts: 171 Location: western PA

no one is being closed minded. There is a wide variety of shooting prefferences and expierences here. Many of us(not everyone) regularly shoot 90 to 120 year old guns. Proper pressure and recoil is of upmost importance with these gun. Its not everyones prefference, but to each his own. Each person here posts of his or her experience. I also use BPI's sixteen gauge manuel, but it is a fact that the low presser group has had some of these loads tested by reputable test facilities and found that the pressures were higher that published. That is not important to the shootist that is using modern guns. but to those who use older guns it is of importance. When posting here we are not sure who is reading, or what kind of gun they use, or what their needs are. So every one chimes in to imform, so that all bases are covered. It is a sharing of insight and education. No one here is slaming you. You have only been here a short time, You don't know what kind of guns people here are using or what thier needs are. Therefore are not qualified to tell others that they don't know what they are talking about, or make insulting comments. We all can learn from each other. We can learn from you too. But perposly insulting regular members is not the way to go about it. Please tone it down and get to know these folks. You will find that this is a friendly forum and a great bunch of guys and gals.
Ben

My Lang 16's frame is 144 years old and the replacement damascus barrels are between 123 and 133 years old. You can bet that I'm VERY sensitive to the pressures of loads. Bluntly, based on what I've seen, I'll trust the low pressure group's info more than BP's.

The fact that modern shotguns have huge reserve safety margins probably explains why BP hasn't had any problems.

I'm comfortable shooting my 16 gauge, which was built in 1864 and rebarreled in the late 1870's or early 1880's, with appropriate low pressure loads. Since pressure testing has shown that at least some of their loads are higher pressure than listed in their manual I WILL NOT shoot any of their loads in my Lang.

I have two modern Italian shotguns, a Beretta 687 and a Rota SxS. I would have no concern shooting BP's loads in either of these guns but never in my Lang.

Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 311

Old,

I have the BP Sixteen Gage Manual and frankly wasn't that impressed. BP hyped it as the complete manual or some such and I frankly didn't think it lived up to its billing. Same with the Advantages manual.

BP is a good comapany to deal with in that they have good customer service, etc. I think the guy who runs it must be a relative of PT Barnum since the products are hyped to what seems to me to be an extreme. You can buy much of the stuff they sell cheaper from other sources.

I haven't got around to joining the low pressure group yet but intend to "one of these days".

Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Posts: 32 Location: WI

My mec sizemaster works great for the amount of shells I load each year.I load federal,remington black and bp hulls with no problems.I've got a lyman 4th edition shotshell manual.Most of the 16ga loads call for AA16 0r active G28 wads.The hodgdon manual has about a dozen 16ga loads in it.

Member Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 13

Thank you for all the information. I do go threw some shells during the year so it would be to my advantage to reload 16ga and 12ga. We have a small clays range that is 10 minutes from my home in Ga. so i do spend more time than i probably should there. It also has a pistol and rifle range ( to much fun). I hunt quail in the South and pheasant when i get the chance to travel. Thank everyone again for the information It will be a great help in getting started with shotshell reloading. Very Happy

Precision Reloading also publishes a loading manual with lots of 16ga data; although not exclusively 16ga.

I use a MEC 700 Versamec single stage. It doesn't have the collet sizer like the Sizemaster but I certainly haven't had any problems with either Rem or WW hulls. At least not in the last 25 years.

Member Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 13

After looking at all the reloaders and reading all the posts i purchased the P&W reloader press. It came in on Friday and after reading the directions and putting it together i am well pleased. Now more questions, what range of powder bushings and shot bushings should i have on hand? reloading for the 16 ga appears to be pretty straight foward but trying to decide what powder, wad and hull to use looks like mass confusion to a rookie. I have Fiocchi hulls and primers and some winchester x hulls to start with. It does appear that primers in shotshells will make a big change in the loads so i will need to have severl brands on hand for differnt loads in differnt hulls. Any tips on how to narror down the selection process would be a great help.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2350 Location: West MI

old dog, welcome to the world of reloading shotshells, i think you will find it very rewarding especially for the 16ga. and paying attention to all the great info on this neat sight will jump start your new hobby. i own most of the info available from BP and have a lyman manual and intend on joining the LPG here, one can never have too much info, i just pick and choose which recipes and components work for the task at hand. i started with mec 600jr's in 20, 16 & 10ga they worked great but were too finiky given all the variables in this hobby. i ended up roll crimping all the gauges i shoot because for me this technique allowed the most easilly adaptable versitility. even though i'm a putz i've lost patience with fiddling around with some things, roll crimping solved alot of the fiddling issues. RC'ing probably isnt as fast as some of the "one pull one shell" machines but once i get a roll going (pardon me) the boxes fill up pretty quick. all im trying to say is while you're gearing up consider roll crimping as a possible technique. welcome aboard, mike