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| < 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Multi Hull vs. Remington Game Load Hull |
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 Posted:
Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:07 pm
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 90
Location: SE USA
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How close are the Remington and Multi Hull in internal dimensions?
Will loads work in either?
If the Multi Hull has a lower base by a little, I am guessing here, could I just lower the powder a grain or two and be at a safe level?
Anybody else been down this road of finding a load you want but it's listed in a different hull.
Thanks |
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Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:53 pm
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Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 171
Location: western PA
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I loaded the same load in in a black remington hull that I used in a BP multi hull. The components took up more room in the remington hull than they did in a multi hull. I also had more recoil and louder report from the reminton hull than the multi hull. You can use your own judgment from there. Similiar loads in the BP sixteen gauge manual, are listed to have 600 to 700 more psi in the remington hull than the multi hull.
Ben |
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:48 am
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 90
Location: SE USA
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I "think" the base is a little higher in the Remington, not much but maybe a 1/16 or so.
The hulls are similar in design.
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Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:18 am
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Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 781
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Swapping components around is bad juju.
If you want to know what works and is safe then load up some shells and send them to Tom Armburst for testing.
Jeff |
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:21 am
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Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 241
Location: Bitterroots
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| Dads A-5 wrote: |
How close are the Remington and Multi Hull in internal dimensions?
Will loads work in either?
Thanks
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Dads A-5,
The walls of the black Remington Game load hull are substantially thicker...
I have a tubing micrometer and checked a couple of lots of the Rem blacks which averaged around .034" wall thickness.
By comparison, Cheddite wall thickness (which I think the Multi-hull is) miked .023" wall or a .022" smaller hull I.D.
This is substantial enough to create higher pressures in the Remington hull all things else being equal; which is what I have found by experience. I would not use the same exact load arbitrarily between the two!
The Federal hulls I checked ran about .025" wall thickness if anyone might be interested...
Slidehammer |
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| Posted:
Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:49 pm
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 90
Location: SE USA
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| Quote: |
| If you want to know what works and is safe then load up some shells and send them to Tom Armburst for testing.
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I am trying to.
I don't have a starting point and that is my problem.
I am not about to "free lance it" with reloading. I am fairly new to the 16 world but I have stuffed many 10's of 1000's of 12,20,28 and 410 hulls.
All by the book and all done safely, the way I want to do 16's but I am having trouble finding a load with the more common components I want to use.
What I am trying to do is get:
Remington Black Game load hull
1&1/8 of 7.5 or 8 shot
Balistic Products Z-16 (trap commander) wad
Winchester 209 primer
???????? grains of Longshot ?????????
I am looking for a 1150 to 1200 FPS load and at the lowest pressure.
Care to help me with a powder weight and I will have it tested for all to use. |
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:54 am
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Member
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 425
Location: Maine
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From Hodgdon's website, a half dozen 1 1/8 oz. loads are listed using an SP-16 wad, two of them a Win. 209 primer.
http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp
20.2 grains gets you 8900 psi with an SP-16, I'd start there. |
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:56 am
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Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1545
Location: Michigan
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Dad's A-5
I don't think that the Z-16 is your best choice for a wad in the RGL hull.
With an 1-1/8 oz. load, why not use the SP-16 wad, that was designed for this hull. In either case, I guess I would start at around 19 garains of Longshot. Maybe load 18, 19, and 20 grains and send them out for testing.
This should get you in the ball park. Working up loads, to meet your needs is half the fun of it. However, it can get a little costly. 
Regards, Dave Miles |
_________________
What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. |
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:59 am
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Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 1975
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DadsA5
here's two loads for Remington hulls. They call for the BP sg-16, but I'm sure you can substitute the z-16 and send them for testing.
1 oz. load
Remington hull
w-209 primer
BP-SG 16 wad substitute Z 16
powder 22 grains longshot
velocity 1288fps
pressure 9500
1 1/8 oz load
Remington hull
w-209 primer
BP-SG16 wad substitute Z 16
poder 21 grains longshot
velocity 1218 fps
pressure 10,400
What I have seen looking thru the recipes, with the Z-16 wad the pressure is a little lower as to using the SG-16. I have used these loads using the SG-16 wad. I will load one using the Z-16 and go out to the pattern board and try it. |
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:27 pm
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 90
Location: SE USA
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| Quote: |
| With an 1-1/8 oz. load, why not use the SP-16 wad, that was designed for this hull
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not true
I bought me a few bags, now for sale, of the Remington SP 16 wads and they are a BAD choice. Search under my user name and see where we talk about powder migration in a Remington Hull and using a SP 16 wad. There is enough room to throw a cat in the gap. I very carefully cut open several cases and I was shocked at the powder in the compression area of the SP wad. Logshot needs a tight fitting wad. The Z-16 Trap Commander seals perfectly in the Remington cases and cripms good to, I practiced on a few with spent primers.
Best bet is to cut a Remington down to just above the metal head and then see how a wad fits the inside diameter of the case. That is aprox where the wad sets and in my experience it was too much room to seal Longshot below the wad.
Others may not have trouble, but I had a blooper sound in the hunting woods and started looking to see what happened.
| Quote: |
1 1/8 oz load
Remington hull
w-209 primer
BP-SG16 wad substitute Z 16
poder 21 grains longshot
velocity 1218 fps
pressure 10,400
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Where is that listed? I want to try this. This is exactly what I want to use.
Thanks a bunch guys and ??? gals ??? |
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:35 pm
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Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1545
Location: Michigan
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[quote="Dads A-5"]
| Quote: |
| With an 1-1/8 oz. load, why not use the SP-16 wad, that was designed for this hull
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not true
[quote]
But it is true. Every factory RGL is loaded with this wad.
It's your choice of powder that is causing the problem. |
_________________
What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. |
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:03 pm
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Member
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 1975
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Quote:
1 1/8 oz load
Remington hull
w-209 primer
BP-SG16 wad substitute Z 16
poder 21 grains longshot
velocity 1218 fps
pressure 10,400
Where is that listed? I want to try this. This is exactly what I want to use.
It's listed in Lymans reloading manual. It knocks the pheasants down, but it sure whacks back at you. My main load for pheasants is a BP multihull with clays powder which has over 1300fps. Clays powder is used mainly for target loads in 12 gauge, but it sure works good in the 16 gauge for pheasants. I just bought the longshot to use in the remington hull as I found only 2 loads using clays and they are pretty slow.
I also just ordered steel loading components. Will be loading a load using longshot 23.5 grains 7/8 oz load which is rated at 1350fps. As soon as I get the bandages off of my right hand I'll go up to the local preserve and try them out. Going to use #2 and #3 shot. |
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:22 pm
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 90
Location: SE USA
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Thanks
I need to get a modern Lyman book.
Mine is quite dated. Good refrence but old.
Thanks again. |
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:34 pm
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 90
Location: SE USA
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| Quote: |
But it is true. Every factory RGL is loaded with this wad.
It's your choice of powder that is causing the problem.
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You are correct.
But with a tight fitting wad you can get good FPS and low pressure. Thats why I went with Longshot.
I did pull several factory Remingtons apart and I see where they are loaded with SP 16 wads, and they fit loose too, but they use a large flake powder.
Thats why I listed my coponents cause I had already figured out my powder would migrate by the Remington wad.
Thanks to all for the help. |
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:39 pm
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Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 245
Location: Eastern Iowa-DeWitt
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Howdy All,
Correct me if I'm wrong but the sp16 and r16 wads were designed for the remington hull or should I say the hull was designed around these wads since they were here first. The bp sg16 or z16 or gualandi whatever the case are larger in diameter by some .020" to .030" and have always caused hull bulging when I've loaded this combo.
From most reports the BP hull is very close to the cheddite and fiocchi in capacity, whereas the remington is very close to the old winchester compression case.
I'll agree with Dave and Slidehammer. Don't try to use the same load in both hulls, your remington loads will be much hotter!
Charlie |
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