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Member Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 279 Location: Mn

Hi: I realize this is a 16ga site (I own 8 of them) but I need some help on reloading 20ga. First..One of my reloading book suggests an RP20 wad, but I can not find them any where. The book is about 4 years old. Are they no longer made? Is there a replacement?

Second: The lyman book (5th) gives a load for 1 1/8 oz load in a 2.75 in Win compression formed case, 22 gr of HS7 and an sp20 wad. I am trying to load some #5 lead for a pheasant load and am using the old AA hulls. there is no way I can crimp this load. Any suggestions??? Thanks

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Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Yes, if you need to shoot 1-1/8 oz. go to a 12 gauge. Confused

I don't have the Lyman's 5th, but are you sure it's a 2 3/4" hull? The Hodgdon site only lists the 3" hull with 1 1/8oz.

Drop it to 1oz and go with it. Plus, it looks like the load you're looking for would put pressures on the upper end for the 20ga.

Either that or go to a straight-walled hull like the Fed or Cheddite. That will give you a tad bit more room. But then you'd have to find a recipe for that hull and it will most likely call for a different wad.

It's my opinion that a 1oz load coming from a 20 would pattern better than the 1 1/8oz load anyway. When you're talking #5s, you ain't talking about that many more BBs.

Good luck.

If all else fails, call Hodgdon. If they don't answer, call Alliant. Ben or Paul at Alliant are great folks and answer emails and phone calls as soon as they are able.

And if all else fails again, reload the 16ga in 1 1/8oz Wink

Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 76 Location: north Texas

I'm sure CV has a good reason why he wants to load 1 1/8 oz in a 20 ga.!

Way back in the days when I only had one shotgun and it was a 20 ga., I loaded a similar round for ducks, geese, and other large fowl - and it was very effective with magnum and plated shot.

My loads required the old-style AA hull and a slightly different charge of W-571 - identical to HS7 - and used both the Rem. RP20 and the yellow Win. WAA20F1. Instructions in the Win. powder loading pamphlet called for 80-100 lbs. of wad pressure to completely crush the collapsible portion of the plastic wad to make room for the shot payload.

I used these handloads for 10+ years in a Rem. 11-48 Sportsman, and had great confidence in them. The only complaint was recoil in a light shotgun.

CV,
I'll have to go look and see if I have any RP20s. If not, I know the yellow Win wad is still available. PM me if you want me to copy the 1 1/8 oz. 20 ga. data from the old Win. loading pamphlet and get it to you. Meanwhile, if I find any RP20s, I'll PM you - I don't need 'em now.

xtm

Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 76 Location: north Texas

CV,

Sent you a PM.

xtm

Member Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 279 Location: Mn

Yes, Xtimberman I too used to be a one gun guy and it was a 20ga and I loaded alot of 1 1/8 oz loads, finding them very effective on pheasants. An oz would probably work as well. I was just puzzled by the fact that I used to beable to make this load work and it doesnt now.

Equismith: It is a 2.75 in hull. Also your suggestion of a fed hull is good as that is the other 2.75 hull recommended, though I can not recall the wad needed and dont have my book here. When I "empty" some this spring I will attempt this load again. The Cheddite is possible, though I havent found any data for this load.

Dave M. I have a # of 12ga sxs and o/u's but reallly like the carry weight of my 16 (5.75), 20 (6.0), and 28ga (5.6) guns, esp when hunting grouse or pheasants all day. I also like to use different guns throughout the season as each has a bit of history and strength of its own that I enjoy. Lets keep an open mind. Charlie

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

[quoteDave M. I have a # of 12ga sxs and o/u's but reallly like the carry weight of my 16 (5.75), 20 (6.0), and 28ga (5.6) guns, esp when hunting grouse or pheasants all day. I also like to use different guns throughout the season as each has a bit of history and strength of its own that I enjoy. Lets keep an open mind. Charlie[/quote]

I can't keep an open mind when you have all those other gauges available.
I see no reason in the world to shoot a 1-1/8 oz load from a 6 lb. 20 gauge.
I have all the gauges of SxS's also. I don't even shoot 1-1/8 oz in my 16 gauge guns. But what the heck. It's your shoulder, and guns.

I grew up shooting 20 gauge 2 3/4 inch Federal paper shells in 1 1/8 oz. 6s were the smallest shot size offered. I can still smell the aroma of a fired Federal maroon paper hull. This was my only gun for 15 years or so. Mostly shot 1 1/8 oz. loads. This is an Eastern Arms side by side. Good for doves to ducks with other small game thrown in between. Last time I reloaded for it ( 1 1/8 oz.)I do remember using HS6 because of its density. If I can find the load I will send it to you. (You can still purchase 2 3/4 inch 1 1/8 oz. loads for the 20 -bought a box last year - paid over $20 for it - Winchester brand).

Forty years later.....especially now that I have a couple of 16s - I don't shoot the 20s much any more.

In my book.......for hunting......16's are best for 1 1/8 oz.......12 is for 1 1/4 oz. Second verse is I don't own or need a 12 any more.

(If I ever shoot those skeet things at the range I will probably try 1 oz. in the 16.)

Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 91

I have a friend that loads 1 1/8 oz in a Federal case all the time. He uses 571 or HS-7 powder which are the same. He has been having problems finding the remington wads he likes to shoot. With the case loaded with nickel 6's, he found it is a deadly load on pheasants.

Member Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 467 Location: SC PA

CV

My copy of the 5th ed. Lyman manual lists only a 1 oz load with the components you gave. It has no loads for 1 1/8oz of shot with 2 3/4''Win hulls.

It does list one 1 1/8oz load for the Federal hull: 17.0 gr Longshot, Fed 209A, Rem SP20. 1152fps @ 11,000psi.

Marcus

Joined: 05 Jan 2008 Posts: 31 Location: Wisconsin

If you are confident that your load data is correct and within the pressure limits you desire, you might try cutting the petals off of the wad to allow more room for the shot. This will open up your patterns a bit due to shot deformation as it contacts the forcing cone and choke but otherwise should work just fine. I know that there are some loads listed in some of my manuals that specify petal removal for that reason. RD

Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 91

I have seen loads listed several times that would be impossible to load in AA cases with their proposed components. Use Federal or one of the cheddites types.

Member Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 279 Location: Mn

Upland Carpenter: You are right, the load is in the 4th edition,not the 5th. This morning I talked to a tech at Precision reloading about the issue and it was his opinion that if they didnt leave it in the 5th edition they must have had problems/complaints with it. The fed hull looks like the best option, having a bit more room.

This would be a hunting load for pheasants using #5 shot and so recoil isnt an issue and will be used only in my newer 20's

Olin no longer sells the WW20F1 one ounce wad as a componant. I do not think they even use it anymore themselves. They now rely on shot wrappers and solid wads, just like they did at the turn of the century. Talk about a giant step backwards. What a bunch of benighted cheapskates. Laughing

I think Olin just sucks.

However, Claybuster makes a substitute for the wad. The AA20F1 is for use in the original AA20 case and also fits the new style AA hull as well. It is too long for most 1-1/8 ounce loads in 2-3/4 inch hulls.

I do not think Remington makes the RP16 1 ounce wad anymore. they offer the SP20 instead. There is a small difference between the two. The RP20 is a tad shorter OAL. It was originally meant for low brass (high base wad shells) Nobody is making a substitute for the RP20 anymore since nobody including Remington has made a high base wad hull in decades. It is this slightly shorter OAL which permits the extra 1/8 ounce of shot to be loaded in any suitable hull. The SP20 will also not often allow for more than 1 ounce of shot.

Aside from the fact that most 20 gauge guns do not handle more than 1 ounce of shot well, I have to ask why you bother to try. Just use a 16 and forget the 20. It will never equal a 16 no matter what you try to do with it. Since darned few average 20 ga guns weigh less than an average 16 ga, you are saving nothing here. Since I can load and shoot a wider range of loads from 3/4 to 1-1/4 ounce of shot far better in my 16 ga guns, I just have no use for the 20 anymore. It is this basic truth that has urged Olin and Remington to try and kill it off for low these many years. However, a good idea is eternal. The 16 ga has outlived Winchester and will also outlive Remington. I call that cosmic justice. Wink

Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 5

I just joined this group, but here's something I know about!

I used to load 1 1/8 in 20 ga back in the late 80's (the last time I reloaded shotshells). I used ACTIV hulls for this load, as it was the only hull that would load it, and it moved a good bit slower than the 1oz load. I finally dropped back to a 1 oz load and was happier. ACTIV hulls were hard to get (I did manage to get some new-My father has the few remaining ones he used for Blackpowder loads for his Rolling Block). Most of mine came from fired shells. Without the ACTIV hull, I couldn't stuff it in any other hull, Federal, Win AA, or Remington at the time without the crimps folding out. And the truth is it was proabably a hair shy of 1 1/8.

ACTIV is long gone (Kent bought the factory but doesn't make the ACTIV hull). Supposedly, Ballistic Products claims their hulls hold as much, but since I don't have any interest, I haven't tried it.

Go to 1 oz in your 20 gauge, and I think you'll be happier.

By the way, I really loved the ACTIV shells, they shot well. I still have a partial box of 12's I keep for nostalgia.

JW