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Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 88 Location: Nericia, Sweden

Brass hulls are something I just have seen in catalogues and advertisments, but in this forum there are some posting about them. As I lack all knowledge on the theme, I would be grateful if you could teach me some elementa about advantages and some how-to-do. I can see a least ome advantage: they are beautiful.

Curiously,

Old Sh.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Basically, the new brass hulls use modern primers.
They are loaded with either Black Powder or Smokeless powder.
You then place an over powder wad, then 1 or 2 fiber wads, your shot, an over shot card, then you seal it in with sealer. Very slow loading.
But like you said they look good, and the hulls last for ever.
You might find this site interesting. Mainly Black powder stuff, but they touch on brass hulls.

http://www.tbullock.com/bpsg.html

Since early October I have been loading and shooting brass shells with very good success. You will find some loads and other info if you look at my Dec. 4 post on this BB.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

the post is dated Dec 10, so here it is. Also, from Dave at Rocky Mountain Cartridge located in Cody WY I bought and loaded both 16 Ga and 28 Ga. His customers claim over 3ooo loads and still going strong. Unlike Hammer Double Co. hulls, RMC's hulls can be loaded with all published loads using modern plastic wads. An over shot card sealed with Ducco cement is necessary.

I pattern tested the two brass shell loads listed below:
Hammer Double Company - Velocity and pressure data by Tom Armbruster
Hull - 16 gauge Crown Series with Win 209 primer
Powder - SR-4756 32 gr.
Over powder card - (1) .135 nitro card
Cushioning wads - (2) .400 lubricated
Shot - 1 0z. #6 copper plated
Over shot card - (1) 16 Ga. osc sealed with Elmer's glue (that is what the bag
says, but I think it is a 14 gauge osc.)
Velocity - 1328 fps
Pressure - 7400 psi

Hull - 16 gauge Crown Series with Win 209 primer
Powder IMR Trail Boss - 25 gr.*
Over powder card - (1) .135 nitro card
Cushioning wads - (1) .400 lubricated
Shot 1 1/8 oz. #5 1/2 nickel plated
Over shot card - (1) 16 Ga. osc sealed with Elmer's glue (that is what the bag
says, but I think it is a 14 gauge osc.)
Velocity and pressure TBD.
The 1 1/8 ounce Trail Boss load was fired from a Mod. barrel and patterned
beautifully at
30 yards. The felt recoil was light.
The 1 ounce 4756 load was fired from an Imp. Cyl choked barrel and patterned
beautifully at 30 yards, overlaying the mod pattern almost symmetrically. The felt recoil seemed slightly heavy.
The recoil differences between the two loads were very noticeable, but it could
be just my perception. Also, after firing, the shells fit nicely in each barrel.
I will send the loaded Trail Boss brass hulls to Tom for velocity and pressure
testing.
If the data comes back as a low pressure, medium to high velocity, damascus
barrel shooters can rejoice.

* Tom Armbruster recommended 3 dram. equiv.

The above loads were used exclusively for wild pheasant and I couldn’t be happier. Obviously the loads take a little more time to assemble than comparable paper or plastic loads, but for hunting, the extra time is acceptable to me.

I can appreciate the hand built quality of brass loads and the satisfaction of making them from the gound up. I can also see myself in the heat of battle letting those brass hulls fly into 3 foot cover as I scramble to reload before the next flush. Ending the day with half the brass I showed up with. I should probably stick with paper or plastic.

Cheers,
Dan

Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 443

I'm with you Dan. Load those Cheddites about six times, trim to 2.5" and load 4 or 5 more times, then load with hunting loads and "fling 'em."

sv

Dave M,
I do not have pressure or velocity data for the 1 1/8 load using Trail Boss. I just have not send expendable hulls to Tom. Field tests on wild birds have been satisfying as has the light felt recoil.
Dan and Steve,
Brass hull are not for everyone and If shot a pump or an auto, I wouldn’t consider them because of potential damage to the hulls or loss potential from ejectors. That said, I shoot SxS’ with and without ejectors and have the habit of cupping my hand when I break the action. Haven’t lost a hull yet and the over shot card provides a good way of identifying the load as does a roll crimp for paper and plastics. In my part of the world, the only birds that rise sporadically and offer more than two shots are Huns and I have become adept at re charging the tubes while waiting for the potential third and fourth bird.

Member Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 3

I have shot a lot of Magtech brass hulls, and a few Rocky Mountain Cartridge cost 5x more, with real Black powder. They give new meaning to “Fire and Brimstone”, and “give ‘em both barrels”! And is an absolute hoot to shoot. I have shot BP at both clays, pheasants, and knock down steel targets.. Shooting clays you need a breezy day or you can’t see the bird break.

Brass shells “fire form” and are not resized, thus are not interchangeable between guns and don’t work in pumps or autos. They probably can be reloaded "indefinitely' provided you don't step on it.

I have come to load ~65-68 Grains of FF black powder-like Swiss, Goex (I use Graf and Sons Black Powder) that is about a 2 ½ dram load. And either 1 oz or 1 1/16 ounce of shot in either 16 or 12 gauge. I have shot ~100 grains, in the 12 gauge which is definitely +P. All the BP subs work too.... but why bother with them when the real Holy Black is available and cheaper.
To prime the shell, Magtechs use large pistol primers,Rocky Mountain Cartridge uses regular 209. Use up your cheapest old primers, black powder will readily ignite, Put the primer on a heavy flat metal surface and place primer pocket over the primer. Put on safety glasses, chose a loose fitting socket and attach an extension and put in the shell and hammer the shell down over the primer.
Load powder
I use either 3.7 to 4.3cc Lee dipper or various cut down rifle shells to get the precise volume/weight of powder that I want, I use Circle Fly wads: 15 gauge nitro card & ½ inch fiber wad, pack by hand with a dowel with as much pressure as you can manage, add shot and glue in a 14 Gauge over shot card either with Duco’s cement, Elmer’s, hot glue -which is a nuisance to use-, or seal with Waterglass (sodium silicate). I use an eyedropper to apply the waterglass. The 16 gauge Magtech shells have barely enough room to get 1 ¼ ounce of shot but the 12’s are more accommodating. Either equal volume of shot and black powder, “ a square load”, a little more shot than powder usually leads to a better pattern. (Circle Fly wads are available at Buffaloarms.com and others most any Blackpowder/Muzzle loading store).

Modern guns shoot the shot cups better, perhaps due to longer forcing cones?. My old Fusil Funi Robust 16 gauge, did better with the powder reduction, and fiber wads. My “new” Russian Remington Coach 12 needs the shot cups to knock down steel targets.

Optional
Cut the base off a Remington 16 g wad and just use the “shot cup” this is necessary if you want higher dram loads. My experimenting with heavy loads 75-8 grainer’s patterned lousy with only fiber wads, but improved with the shot cups. Adding the shot cup precludes using much more than one ounce of shot in a 16 gauge Magtech hull.

I like the Holy Black & Brass so much, that I bit the bullet and bought some $$ expensive cases from Rocky Mountain Cartridge. They are elegant and very heavy and fall right out the coach gun which facilitates reloading in timed events. The brass is so much thicker you must use 12 gauge wads and only 11gauge over shot card.

Unlike hand guns, I can shoot a lot of BP shotshells without the gun malfunctioning. It is dirty and sooty and smelly, adding to the adventure of my ancestors did in central Texas 150 years ago. Every thing cleans up with hot soapy water, put the fired cases in soapy water and when you get home rinse until clean dry and tumble like regular brass. I just remove the barrels and put down in the hot soapy water and pump a brush +/- patch up and down several times. rinse and pass a bore snake one or two times with several sprays of 10% Balistol & water between steps. I dry off the barrel and reassemble.

I like and use a lot of Trailboss but it is a little pricey to shoot in a shotshell but I intend to try it out

Okotoks
Parker CO

Hammer Double Co. bores out the primer pocket and adds a base wad to Mag Tech brass and the result is a brass hull that accepts a 209 primer. Cost is X2 of Mag tech hulls.