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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Short chambers |
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Posted:
Sun May 11, 2008 3:37 am
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Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 88
Location: Nericia, Sweden
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Yesterday I visited a friend, who is selling a 16ga+8x57IR drilling (triplet). I made a bid and it is rather likely that I will get it.
We took the gun apart and really scrutinized it. Most features were OK or lightly fixable, but not the chambers. They were short, very short: 2 3/8" (We used a chamber gauge.) However, we made a try with a brass hull, and that fitted perfectly. Should I suppose, that the drilling was built for brass hulls? It should have been built in Germany around 1910 - 1925, and all three barrels are nitro proofed.
Should I open the chambers to 2½" or just go with homeloaded brass hulls?
Regards,
Pete |
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Posted:
Sun May 11, 2008 8:40 am
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Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 443
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Or load even shorter shells. I load 2.75" shells, then cut the crimps off when they get old and load them as 2.5" When that gets old, I cut them again to 2" even. There is no reason you couldn't make your own custom length hulls.
sv |
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Posted:
Sun May 11, 2008 9:57 am
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Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 3438
Location: Illinois
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Agreed--Use Steve's solution or the brass hulls if you have enough |
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Posted:
Sun May 11, 2008 12:28 pm
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Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 443
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Sometimes I use different length hulls for different applications. I use the 2.5" hulls for 3/4 and 7/8 ounce loads. I just came upstairs from loading 1 ounce loads with 19.0 gr. of Unique and a TC16 wad. It fits perfectly in a 67mm (2 9/16") hull. The full length hulls I use most commonly for Scott's Pheasant Slayer Load with 1 1/8 ounce of hard #5s.
sv |
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Posted:
Sun May 11, 2008 4:27 pm
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Member
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 370
Location: Columbia, SC
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I suspect that 2 1/2 inch shells are the appropriate load for the 16 bore barrels. I'd be comfortable shooting 2 1/2 inch low pressure shells if the drilling is in good condition.
I'd be more concerned about the BORE of the 8x57 rifle barrel if it is marked 8x57JR. The 8x57JR (the German's frequently used what looks like an "I" for a "J") has a .318 bore diameter. The 8x57JRS has a .323 bore diameter. All modern 8x57 (8mm Mauser) ammunition has .323 diameter bullets. Shooting .323 diameter bullets through .318 diameter bores can create grossly excessive pressures. Also be aware that the "R" means the rimmed version of the 8x57. |
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Posted:
Sun May 11, 2008 6:06 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9464
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Hello All, I shoot a Krieghoff Drilling in 16 x 16 x 8x57IR. Sellier & Bellot ammo is easily obtainable from Natchez at the cost of $16.49 for a box of 20. It is boxer primed and reloadable, but is cheaper to buy the loaded ammo than to try to find economical jacketed .318 bullets. Enjoy the day, Mike |
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Posted:
Sun May 11, 2008 8:09 pm
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Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 317
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skeettx wrote: |
Hello All, I shoot a Krieghoff Drilling in 16 x 16 x 8x57IR. Sellier & Bellot ammo is easily obtainable from Natchez at the cost of $16.49 for a box of 20. It is boxer primed and reloadable, but is cheaper to buy the loaded ammo than to try to find economical jacketed .318 bullets. Enjoy the day, Mike
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Have a source for .318s without the rim? Heck, I'll take a source for just the bullets. |
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Posted:
Sun May 11, 2008 8:21 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9464
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Hello All, I believe Natchez at www.natchezss.com can handle this request, and you can call them at 1-800-251-7839 to verify. Ask them about item number FO3ZYSBA85707, this is S&B 8x57 JS ammo with 196 grain SPCE bullet. They can verify the bullet diameter. Let us know how your quest comes out. Enjoy the day, Mike |
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Posted:
Sun May 11, 2008 9:03 pm
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Old Shatterhand wrote: |
Yesterday I visited a friend, who is selling a 16ga+8x57IR drilling (triplet). I made a bid and it is rather likely that I will get it.
We took the gun apart and really scrutinized it. Most features were OK or lightly fixable, but not the chambers. They were short, very short: 2 3/8" (We used a chamber gauge.) However, we made a try with a brass hull, and that fitted perfectly. Should I suppose, that the drilling was built for brass hulls? It should have been built in Germany around 1910 - 1925, and all three barrels are nitro proofed.
Should I open the chambers to 2½" or just go with homeloaded brass hulls?
Regards,
Pete
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Pete the chamber lengths (65 mm) are usually marked on the barrel flats.
Most older American Double Gun makers cut the chamber about 1/8th inch shorter than the hull length they intended the guns to shoot in order to get a better gas seal in the days before plastic wads. |
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Posted:
Mon May 12, 2008 5:36 am
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Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 88
Location: Nericia, Sweden
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Twice Barrel wrote: |
Pete the chamber lengths (65 mm) are usually marked on the barrel flats.
Most older American Double Gun makers cut the chamber about 1/8th inch shorter than the hull length they intended the guns to shoot in order to get a better gas seal in the days before plastic wads.
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1. 2½" (65mm) were standard, and usually only longer chambers were marked on the flats.
2. Your remark of the shorter chamber and gas sealing is interesting - perhaps the answer of my wondering is so simple.
3. On the bullet. The bore is marked 7,8mm and 14,5 StMG, i.e. 220 grs steel jacketed bullet. .318" bullets are available in loads from RWS and Sellier&Bellot, and other makers too have fine .318" bullets for reloading. That is not a problem at all - if one is aware of it.
Regards
Pete |
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Posted:
Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:15 pm
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Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Eastern Reaches of the Daley Empire
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Old Shatterhand wrote: |
Yesterday I visited a friend, who is selling a 16ga+8x57IR drilling (triplet). I made a bid and it is rather likely that I will get it.
We took the gun apart and really scrutinized it. Most features were OK or lightly fixable, but not the chambers. They were short, very short: 2 3/8" (We used a chamber gauge.) However, we made a try with a brass hull, and that fitted perfectly. Should I suppose, that the drilling was built for brass hulls? It should have been built in Germany around 1910 - 1925, and all three barrels are nitro proofed.
Should I open the chambers to 2½" or just go with homeloaded brass hulls?
Regards,
Pete
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Hey Pete. Long time no type.
Mine are even shorter at 2-1/4", but I decided against lengthing the chambers on my Drilling and am going to cut to length... though I MAY try CTL Brass if that is a better option, but it would seem to preclude using plastic wads... .
Anyway, That Drilling of mine IS a 9.3x72R and it shoots well. Ammo is bloody expensive though, so I ordered a full set of custom dies, & 100 brass 150 bullets, and a bullet mould for about what 5 boxes of 20 sell for.
It will be fun to get the 16s running though. They are tired of being lonely at the top. |
_________________ MALUM PROHIBITUM, MALUM HABENAE REGUM EST |
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Posted:
Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:20 pm
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Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Eastern Reaches of the Daley Empire
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RWG wrote: |
skeettx wrote: |
Hello All, I shoot a Krieghoff Drilling in 16 x 16 x 8x57IR. Sellier & Bellot ammo is easily obtainable from Natchez at the cost of $16.49 for a box of 20. It is boxer primed and reloadable, but is cheaper to buy the loaded ammo than to try to find economical jacketed .318 bullets. Enjoy the day, Mike
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Have a source for .318s without the rim? Heck, I'll take a source for just the bullets.
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If you cast you can have http://www.mountainmolds.com/ cut you a mold.
Just use their design software and pay up. He makes good molds. |
_________________ MALUM PROHIBITUM, MALUM HABENAE REGUM EST |
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Posted:
Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:14 pm
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9464
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Hello, Yes, I cast, have about 400 moulds, but I also sometimes want to go over 2000 FPS. The jacketed bullets fit that bill and do shoot to where the sights are on the drilling. Casting is fun and easy. I have an air operated bullet feeding Star lube sizer, sure makes quick work of the lube chore. Enjoy the day, Mike |
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Posted:
Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:05 pm
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Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 404
Location: Westport Wa
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I just picked up a Belgium made nitro proofed SXS in 16, and after carefully measuring the chambers, barrel thickness, and comparing measurements against my other 16 SXS's, I reamed the chambers and extended the forcing cones. I was surprised at how little material (.008" total dia.)was removed to get themup to 2 3/4" chambers. I did leave them slightly short however. I was wondering why there seems to be a lot of resistance to punching out the chambers? .004" removed from the barrel thickness does not amount to much, considering the barrels were .006" different from each other in the bore! |
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Posted:
Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:58 am
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Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3373
Location: The Great Northwet
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Quote: |
I was wondering why there seems to be a lot of resistance to punching out the chambers? .004" removed from the barrel thickness does not amount to much, considering the barrels were .006" different from each other in the bore!
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Speaking for myself, I wasn't aware so little was removed either. GWP, did you do this yourself? I am hesitant to change the chambers on my Lefever mostly because I value its original condition. On the other hand, once I have the barrels re-browned, I suppose that point is moot. Your point does beg the question, is any reduction in pressures from lengthening the chambers negated by a corresponding weakening of the barrels at the point they are reamed? I can't imagine how .006 would matter much, but I'm no expert either. |
_________________ Gun art: www.marklarsongunart.com
Gallery art: www.marklarsonart.com
The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess." |
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