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In Larry Brown's article, the focus was on whether jumping to a higher speed round provides a benefit to your round. The other issue is shot size. IMHO, #6 is the best overall shot size for wild pheasants and chukar. However, if my mortgage is on the line and I'm dealing with skiddish birds later in the season where I may only have one chance for the whole day, #5 is a better round than #6. It took me a while to learn that after shooting a bunch of pheasant and a ton of mallards (pre non-toxic) with #6 and while you have centered the bird, it's in the marginal area of the effectiveness of #6 and just "shuttering" the bird. I would then switch to #5 and have a dead bird in the air.

#6 is probably the best overall pellet size for wild pheasant and chukars but when conditions go south, this is certainly one instance where size does matter. That's why it is nice to shoot a double where you have a #6 in your open choke and #5 in your tighter choke.

Like I said in earlier posts, "there's no free lunch"...

I absolutely agree. When conditions go south, I always step up to bigger shot for the bigger upland birds. I usually go to a 1250 FPS, 1-1/8 ounce load of hard #5 shot after the last week of October in my top barrel. By then, the birds in my locale have filled out in size and plummage a bit. The survivors are also smarter, less likely to hold tight, and tend to gravitate to the thicker cover available. #5 shot does add the needed insurance to produce clean killing hits on fast departing birds that will get up a bit further out. The bigger pellets are also desirable for the follow up shot if I miss or fringe the bird with the first.

When winter sets in around here, I carry the #5 loads in the down barrel and back them up with a 1250 FPS, 1-1/4 ounce load of hard #4 shot. These slammers will dump pheasant out at the far end of my ability to hit them cleanly. I do not often need them, but when I do, they always hammer the bigger birds even if only three or 4 pellets get to the vitals. The difference in how the birds react to a hit with #4 shot is significant. They simply fold up and drop like a rock.

By now, I've acquired enough experience in the field to know what works for me. I do not expect anyone to simply take my word for it though. The best teacher anyone can have is experience. This way, everyone learns for themselve what suits them and what doesn't. However, there is only one way to get that experience. Shoot your gun a lot and hunt a lot. Pay close attention to both when you do. Remember what you've seen. Then reflect on it. The truth of the matter will make itself known if you do.

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2007 Posts: 601 Location: Virginia

I tend to use faster powders for 7/8 oz in the 16 gauge, i.e., 700X and Red Dot, mainly because I have a lot of both powders. They work fine in fixed-breech guns but will not cycle an A5. Lee's Load-All charge tables is where I got the data. For heavier shot loads I go with Unique.

DanLee

Red Dot and 700X are excellent for opening a pattern. They tend to slap the shot column out of the barrel. Slower powders push the column along and accelerate it more slowly. I've used Red Dot for both my 3/4 and 7/8 ounce loads. It works well for #9 shot skeet loads. However, I get a better hunting pattern from these subgauge loads with Green Dot. The pattern tends to stay together further out. This type of pattern works better for me when I'm taking the smaller upland species like quail, woodcock, etc.. with the smaller loads of shot, especially if I'm using #7.5 or #7 shot.

I use Red Dot exclusively for my 5/8 ounce loads. Green Dot does not burn as well As I like it to with this very small 16 gauge load. It also tends to clump the pattern too tightly. Red Dot gives me a clean burn and a nice even pattern with these very light loads of #8 or #8.5 shot. These little poppers work very well on close in snipe, rail, and for pests like starlings. I also have used them for small, stocked quail. They are a bit too small for full grown, wild quail. 7.5 shot is the minimum size I use here. the pattern from 5/8 ounces of #7.5 shot is also a bit too thin for hunting IMO, except at the closest ranges. However, close in shots like these are never gauranteed, plus atthat range, 8 or 8.5 shot is plenty big enough for small birds.

Powder choice is best made by considering the results it gives with any load. The purpose of the load should also be taken into account. The good thing is that we have a fine selection of powders available. I always recommend that folks take full advantage of the tools available. Getting a bigger hammer is not always the wise choice. Laughing

Looking at the suggestions for 7/8oz loads,Im sure that most of them will work just fine.But do you need all that pressure to get such moderate velocities.If you do,Im not very impressed with modern powders.
Im using an old obsolete load and getting 1288fps with 4032psi

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Dave,
The reason that this load gives such a good velocity with such a low pressure is because the primer is exactly matched to the powder.If you can find a primer that matches a powder it will consistantly outperform any other combination for pressure velocity ratio throughout the entire range for which that powder was designed.Years ago ballistic labs gave us 1"and 6" pressures from the breach allowing us to see how pressure was sustained.Now they only tell us the bang in the breech, making powder primer matching almost impossible.
The load is from Nobel-Glasgows powders for the Handloader.
I told you it was obsolete,but here it is
Case:Eley parallel tube. Primer Eley surefire. powder NGSP80 20.5 grains Wads 1/8 OP. 2 ----3/8 kleena or fibre or felt.
Pressure. 1.80 tns/sq. in.=4032psi Vel. obseved vel. that is over 20 yards 1065fps=1288MV

If its any help NGSP80 has a burn rate mid way between Bullseye and Red Dot.
Let me know what you think Dave.

Dave,
I use a plastic shot collar with the fibre wads or I reduce the powder charge by 10 per cent and use rem. plastic wad for the same ballistics