16ga.com ~ View topic - Green Dot powder equals tighter patterns?

Joined: 22 Nov 2006 Posts: 24

It's only a guess on my part based on tests done with a 20ga. However, my question to you experienced reloaders is: does green dot powder make your shot patterns tighter?

I watched a trial done by my friend Tom with 20ga. And found that with a 7/8oz load with mag 7.5 shot going 1200ft/sec were significantly tigher with green dot than universal, international or unique for that matter. Has anyone experienced the same with 1oz 16ga loads using green dot?

I'm thinking about reloading some 1200ft/sec 16ga loads using 5's and 6's. And would like to tighten up my IC/Mod chokes on my side by side for end of the season pheasant hunting in NoDakota.

Any input would be appreciated!

Guest

I don't know about Green Dot but my 1 ounce loads with 24 grains of HS6 using Winchester AA16 wads and Winchester Compression Formed hulls gave superior patterns to Winchester Upland and Dove and Quail using the same hull and wad combination. Velocity and chamber pressure are moderate at 1220 fps and 9500 psi respectively. These loads tightened my Fox Skeet 1 choked 16 gauge from 48% pattern at 40 yards to 59% pattern at the same distance.

Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posts: 171 Location: western PA

A rule of thumb that I generaly follow is that a slower burning powder will generaly tighten the pattern. Less shot defformation and less bouncing around of the shot going down the barrell with a slower push. That being said each gun still have their own characterists and should be patterned. not all rules apply acrossed the board with every gun. There can also be a difference from lot to lot of the same powder. Green dot I think is a little faster that the other powders you mention. maybe it has a more stable, or consistant burn. Only patterning will tell you if it works as well with a 16 gauge, or a different gun.
Ben

also larger shot can tighten a pattern.

Also think in another light :

A tighter pattern on paper often has little corrilation to a tighter pattern in flight .

Shoot paper if your shooting a turkey , shoot flying targets if your shooting something flying .

When I was building barrels , we shot some barrels that shot wonderful patterns on paper but it was nearly worthless on flying targets .

Conversely so , some VERY POOR PATTERNS on paper shot wonderful on clay targets .

Food for thought only , when younger I thought the same as the rest of everyone else , untill I went to building barrels and was shown the error of my thinking by some older , wiser , folks that had done this for years .

Compair apples to apples when testing a shotgun , FOR NOT ALL ARE THE SAME .

Regards Charles

Guest

OK Charles I'll bite. How do you measure a pattern on a moving target.

Do you tape your pattern sheet to your buddy's pickup and drive by at 30 mph?

So thats how my truck got all those "rock" chips!?

Joined: 06 Aug 2008 Posts: 7 Location: Brainerd, Minnesota

There could be something to the "slower powder = tighter pattern" theory. My experience on sporting clays targets (never tested this on paper so take it for what it may be worth) is that Universal breaks targets harder then International in the 20 gauge. The same seems to be true for International or Green Dot versus Clays in the 12 gauge. Looking at loading data and burn-rate charts leads me to believe that Green Dot and International -- and also Winchester Super Target -- are about the same speed, and that Universal is slower. Of course, they are not directly interchangable. Clays, and I think it is Red Dot (which I haven't tried), are about the same speed and faster then these others.

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

If you've read more than 2 paragraphs by Don Zutz you know he used Green Dot a lot in his Trap target reloads and favored it for tight patterning with side-by-side comparisons against other powders to show percentage and distribution gains. All of that, from what I could find, was in 12ga. A couple years ago I checked only one pair of 16ga reloads against each other, one with Green Dot and one with Solo 1250. Both used hard #5 shot, since I'm lazy and like counting fewer pellet holes. I couldn't tell a difference in distribution (non-scientific looking at the target paper) and the counts were essentially the same. Too many variables to make any conclusion from that, but it showed me I could load either one as a hunting load and be happy.

kgb

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

If tight patterns is all you want .

Drop the velocity down to subsonic 800-900 FPS range and contain all the shot in the cup , use pure Animony and you will have your real tight pattens.

When I check a load I do what all shooters do .

I shoot targets if I can break a 98-100 straight with the load and it performs to my expectations (MATCHES MY TIMING ) then I call it an good load otherwise its back to the drawing board ( the reloader ).

Perhaps the focus should be placed in another area , dang near all the loads you can cram in a shotgun will OUT PERFORM THE SHOOTER , perhaps we should work on hitting that 40 yard crossing target or that 60 meter second shot on bunker trap .

Back when I was shooting a WHOLE BUNCH I shot with a gentelman from St . Louis by the name of Bob Burg , now Bob has lots of money and would try all the different gadgets , guns , shells , ect .

Bob one day said to me , I would give any amount of money to shoot as good as you . Well this goes to show that throwing money and patterning shotguns that perform better than we can shoot them is trying to buy something that we just cannot have EXCEPT THRU HARD WORK .

FORGET THE PATTERNS , SHOOT SOME MORE SHELLS AND FIND OUT THE MAGIC OF PRACTICE .

PRACTICE = BETTER SHOOTERS

Regards Charles

Guest

TB,
After watching guys at the club, I've found some truth to what Charles is stating. The hard core trap shooters are not happy unless all targets went up in smoke. Meaning to them if the target wasn't smashed then they dang near missed it. I myself was taking the skirts off the targets for a while and have since corrected that and have went on to run several straights. Best part here is I'm doing with an ugly old Ithaca 37T. Gotta love it when the perazzi's and beretta's drop one and your still up. If you shoot much clay targets you'll notice once in a while you just split the target or small chip somewhere, ya thats still a hit but not by the hardcore guys.
Charlie Wink

Ill just have to invite you to come to the trap range and lets shoot some targets , then why dont you justs come with us to the Dakotas and shoot some Pheasant and Sharptail , then you might as well come with us to OK. and shoot some quail .

Naw the high speed camera's are not necessary just a waste of money and time.
Can you not see a shotstring in flight ??? I suppose not , perhaps you might just look sometime , some can , some cannot .

I used to be known as the one who left balls of smoke on targets with no visable part hitting the ground , you dont get that by not knowing your loads capabilities somewhat . This is shooting a core , fringed targets do not count in the eval of a load .

I will use what brings the most game to bag , might ask Stack 16 and Ash what the loads do to game that I use and how I can use them .

No recoil to hurt me and the birds never know what hit em , cant get much better than that .

I will shoot paper when I want a load for Card Shooting or Turkey Hunting but that is the ONLY time .

Let me know if your coming up to the Film Hunt , I will tell Char to set another dinner plate out .

Regards Charles

Guest

Guest

[quote="Charles Hammack"]Ill just have to invite you to come to the trap range and lets shoot some targets , then why dont you justs come with us to the Dakotas and shoot some Pheasant and Sharptail , then you might as well come with us to OK. and shoot some quail .

quote]

Charles thanks for the invitation but I'm afraid I will have to decline. I'm not much on hunting with large groups and I have a young "not ready for prime time" Setter I'm trying to finish off and I don't want to get him confused by the crowd although contacts with that many pheasant and sharp tails is very tempting.