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| < 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Winchester hulls= Cheddite hulls? |
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 Posted:
Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:52 pm
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Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 31
Location: Eastern Washington
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| Is load data interchangeable? I have a bunch of winchester super-x high and low brass hulls and data is certainly a lot more plentiful for cheddite hulls. |
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:59 pm
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Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 317
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| sheabert wrote: |
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Is load data interchangeable? I have a bunch of winchester super-x high and low brass hulls and data is certainly a lot more plentiful for cheddite hulls.
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The Aussie made Super X is a cheddite hull. Older Super X are winchester poly formed hulls. |
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:32 pm
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Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Finland
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| Also Italian made (all super-x´s in europe today I suppose?) are cheddites. |
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:56 pm
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Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 31
Location: Eastern Washington
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| So how do I know what i have? I bought them within the last year. |
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:42 pm
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Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 31
Location: Eastern Washington
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| nevermind, i found the "made in australia" on the box. cool. Now i have a lot more options on loads. |
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:27 pm
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida
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Last edited by MaximumSmoke on Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:43 pm
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Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 173
Location: S. E. Arizona
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This is the NEW Aussie Winchester Super X. It is a Cheddite hull. The old AA poly formed AA case has tapered base walls and an integral base wad.
Big difference - do not confuse them and mix loads, as the volumes are very different. |
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Country to hunt, my setters, and a Fox 16 gauge...
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:50 pm
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 317
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| Hey C-man. Good to see you posting on this board. How is your Chukar season going? Any new Fox doubles to tell us about? |
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:11 am
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida
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Last edited by MaximumSmoke on Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:07 am
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Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 104
Location: Northeastern Pa.
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In this discussion about Cheddite hulls and not necessarily 16 ga but 12 ga also. I have picked up numerous hulls that are Rio's and International, both have the same internal configuration with the white inner base wad and the top of the head has the 4* (stars) like the Cheddite hulls have. The Rio's come in three different brass (plated) head sizes but the internalls are all the same height. The International is a red hull in 12 ga, I beleive the box said made in Spain, but as noted earlier Cheddites are French made
These hull s compared to Win. and Rem are thiner, about .025-.028 thick.
The reason for asking is has anyone had any experience re-loading any of these hulls for low pressure low velocity loads, most likely would be a one time deal. Have the ability to pick up quite a few at a local range and I already have quite a few.
Any help would be appreciated even though it is not 16 ga., Thanks. |
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:14 am
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| David wrote: |
In this discussion about Cheddite hulls and not necessarily 16 ga but 12 ga also. I have picked up numerous hulls that are Rio's and International, both have the same internal configuration with the white inner base wad and the top of the head has the 4* (stars) like the Cheddite hulls have. The Rio's come in three different brass (plated) head sizes but the internalls are all the same height. The International is a red hull in 12 ga, I beleive the box said made in Spain, but as noted earlier Cheddites are French made
These hull s compared to Win. and Rem are thiner, about .025-.028 thick.
The reason for asking is has anyone had any experience re-loading any of these hulls for low pressure low velocity loads, most likely would be a one time deal. Have the ability to pick up quite a few at a local range and I already have quite a few.
Any help would be appreciated even though it is not 16 ga., Thanks.
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The four stars on the case head indicates that they are a Cheddite hull. The made in Spain indicates that the hulls were loaded in that country, however, the origin of the components could be from about anywhere. The Cheddite 12 gauge hulls should lend themselves well for low pressure moderate velocity loads with the correct wads, primers and powder. Check Accurate Arms and Hogdon powders for possible loads, |
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:09 pm
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Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 173
Location: S. E. Arizona
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| shootingsioux wrote: |
Chuckarman,
Woops! Mixed Terminology Alert. There are no AA polyformed cases. Those are two different things.
Winchester-Western polyformed hulls are not AA's. Poly-formed hulls are of the Rieffenhauser style -- a multi piece hull (three pieces generally) made from a polyethylene tube of constant wall thickness, and a basewad all crimped together by a metal base. AA's are not polyformed, nor are they referred to as polyformed in powder manufacturer's loading data. AA's are compression formed, and they are one structural piece with tapered walls, having a brass base that is of no real structural consequence or necessity other than to make the shell look like other shells. i.e. the metal base is not needed to hold a compression formed case together.
Of course now we have non compression formed AA's in 12, 20, 28 and .410, and they are built like a Rieffenhauser case (3 pieces, crimped together by the brass) except they have a parabolic basewad so they perform as efficiently as the old compression formed AA's (well almost, in the case of 28's and .410's). Their walls are untapered except at the crimp. But there are no such cases in 16. Winchester plastic shells are either polyformed (Rieffenhauser, of at least two types manufactured by Win or Cheddite) or compression formed (now discontinued labeled as AA, Upland, Super-X or Super Speed, but not Xpert or Ranger in their day). These types are two different animals as far as reloading goes.
"New" Cheddite-made hulls are not the only polyformed hulls from Winchester. From the start, Winchester plastic hulls were polyformed Rieffenhauser type, made concurrently with AA's and other compression formed cases. The oldest polyformed Winnies ('60's) have paper basewads. They were merely plastic tubed versions of Winchester's old paper hulls. You can see how this was the quickest and cheapest way to compete with the Remington RP hull, which beat Win to the market. Win did not put one-piece plastic wad units in these earliest polyformed hulls. Only AA's had such wad units. Even hunting loads in compression formed cases were loaded with conventional paper wads for a while. They used the Mark 5 shot sleeve, except for the cheaper ones. I digress, sorry.
In the lead shot era, Winchester's premium loads were usually in compression formed hulls, and cheaper stuff was in polyformed. Now all Win hunting loads are polyformed because it suits higher mass/higher velocity shot charges better, and they have greater capacity to accommodate steel, but of course they're used for lead too. Compression formed cases are great for very efficient (low powder usage) light loads (target loads), and are limited because they develop higher pressures for a given muzzle velocity and charge weight -- not the best for the hyper-velocity magnum loads of today in non-toxics as well as lead.
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I know that. I had a brain f*rt, I guess. I load the old style one piece WWAA16 hulls, and have collected data on others. The WWAA hulls are one piece hulls. The photo posted is an Aussie Cheddite type WW hull. |
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Country to hunt, my setters, and a Fox 16 gauge...
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:20 pm
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Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 173
Location: S. E. Arizona
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| RWG wrote: |
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Hey C-man. Good to see you posting on this board. How is your Chukar season going? Any new Fox doubles to tell us about?
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Russ - I check in here occasionally to keep you guys in line.m 
Spent Sept & Oct in North Dakota and Montana. Got snowed out of Montana and went to Oregon, then Washington. Had a good season.
No new Fox guns, but have these acquisitions over the last few years to report:
Dickson (12)
Lindner Daly (20)
Jos. Harkom (16)
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Country to hunt, my setters, and a Fox 16 gauge...
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:38 pm
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Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 317
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C-Man:
Those three are beauties. 12s, no doubt. I especially like Harkoms. |
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:32 pm
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Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 173
Location: S. E. Arizona
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Russ
The Harkom is a 2-1/2" 16 bore - 5 lbs 9 oz. Rebarreled by Fred Buller at Hellis Beasley and Watson - London proofs.
The Lindner Daly is a 20 bore with Damascus barrels. A full-on restoration job, but the barrels were perfect = 28" and 30 thou minimum wall thickness. Weighs about the same as the Harkom.
The Dickson is a 2-1/2" 12 gauge round action - weighs 6/3 and was rebarreled by the maker.
Have a nice new year! |
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Country to hunt, my setters, and a Fox 16 gauge...
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