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Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 29

I've been using the 1 oz Gualandi wad in some 2 9/16 loads. I've joined the Low Pressure group and was looking at some data they had posted regarding the dimensions of the 1oz vs the 1 1/8 oz Gualandi wad. According to the data they are identical in all dimensions. Is this correct? I would think the 1 1/8 oz wad should have a deeper shot cup or shorter dimension from the bottom of the wad to the bottom of the shotcup. Any info would be appreciated.

Regards, Augustus

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

I don't know if they have the same measurements or not.
But, they don't use the same part number.
The 1-1/8 oz wad is GU1618
The 1 oz wad is GU1621

Personally, if I need more than 1 oz. of shot, I'll use a 12 gauge. Wink

I just went to the LPG's website. If you'll look at the bottom of the two wads, you'll see the difference. The 1-1/8 oz wad will set farther down on the powder, allowing for the extra shot. It doesn't have all the little plastic prongs in the bottom of the cup.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I have a great low pressure load, using 7/8 oz shot in a 2-1/2" hull. I'm now going to try the using the 1-1/8 oz wad, and 1 oz of shot. I'll bet I can make this all fit into the short hull. Very Happy

The difference is so very slight that Ole Ben and I use either one in our loads , due to the very small amount of crush section , you do have a very small variance in height of the column , but it is not enough to write home about .

All spec's are exactly the same less the fingers vs knobs on the over the powder cup .

Displacement between the two wads are not worth mentioning . Should have only been one of these molds made and the shot cup holds exactly 5/8 OZ shot level and a 5% crown with 3/4 OZ .

Regards Charles

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 596 Location: 17603

Gents,
Just started loading for the 2 9/16" hull, and I have both the Gualandi 1618 & 1621. The difference is the base, with the 1618 having less "teeth", allowing it to sit marginally deeper. As Charles points out the crushable/compressionable oval means that there is little practical difference.
However, futzing with my P/W 800 in an attempt to get a fully progressive short shell reloader up and running, that minor difference was enough to help with getting a slightly more tapered crimp with 7/8oz in a Cheddite hull.
The best combo however was the Cheddite 1 oz wad with an overshot card. My 'new' short chambered A-5 cycled these the best last night on the first test run at the trap range. I was well pleased to get 39/50 on the gun's first outing with most of my attention being focused on feeding and cycling. Good clean burn using 19gr of Unique, and with a little oil on the magazine tube and rings on low load setting, hulls ejected fine, though feeding with the variety of flare I had on my experimental rounds was not always 100%.
There is enough adjustment on the crimp setting on the P/W to get a good crimp, but the dies are too long to get a proper taper on the hull. One solution is to get a shorter set of dies (expensive), though I'm hoping that I can modify the crimp head to seat further on the die, thereby squeezing the head of hull just a tad more.
Cheers,
R*2

Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 29

My reason for needing a deeper shot cup is to use the Polywad Spreader post, and with the 1 oz wad my crimps kind of pooch out a bit. I also have problems with shells crushing when using the low brass black RST hulls. How much wad pressure can you use to give a little more room? I went up to about 70 lbs with the black RST hulls. The light green Cheddites are a different story, they must have thicker case walls because they load very well. Thanks for all your help!

Regards, Augustus

Guest

I use Federal hulls because they have the largest internal capacity that I'm aware of. Using 21.5 grs. Longshot, I am able to squeeze 1 1/8oz. into a 2 9/16 Fed. hull with a bp Z16wad with the petals cut off. Or, 1 oz. with a spreader. Also, 1 oz. with a SG16 wad (without the petals cut off) fits perfectly. I find it to be a very versatile hull, and it is durable too. And it's purple! All 16ga. hulls should be purple in my humble opinion.

Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 29

The RST is a Cheddite hull, factory loaded 2 1/2". I haven't gotten a chance to use any other hull like a Remington or Federal because I can't find any! I did just buy an 870 though and now I can buy some Wally World Federals, shoot them in the 870 and then cut them down to shoot in my 2 9/16 A-5. I like the purple too!

Regards, Augustus

If your after a 1 OZ loading , purchase some of the Claybuster AA16 clones and load them in the RGL hulls , you will have your pedal length then and a case dimension close to what the wad needs to perform .

Regards Charles

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 29

Thanks for all of your tips. I plan on doing some experimenting. The only time I needed the heavy pressure was with the black RST's with the low brass. They just want to crush. I loaded some clear RST's with low brass and had no problems. I think I'll load the black low brass RST's for hunting loads and if I lose them, no big loss. The crimps actually held, I was suprised. I've been using a load with International Clays that is for 7/8 oz and a Gualandi wad that takes no cards or fillers. I also bought some SR7625 to try with the same wad and 1 oz that takes no cards or fillers. I just recently was given some polywad spreaders by a forum member and that is my next mission since both of my 16's are full choked.

Thanks, Augustus

Gus, the PW insert works the best if just about al the shot is contained in the shot cup with the insert stem in place. It's stem must also seat all the way into the shot column without contacting the shot cup base. The Gualandi cup is too short to hold even 7/8 ounce of shot. If you insert the insert stem, too much shot will sit above the petals for the insert to work to it's fullest ability.

The insert stem displaces a full 1/8th ounce of shot. I'm not up on how deep the Cheddite wad's cup is, so I can't offer any insight here. However, for a 1 ounce load of shot, PW recommends using the Remington SP16 wad. It will hold a full 1 ounce of shot with the insert stem in place. The R16 will hold 7/8 ounces of shot with the stem in place. I believe the new Claybuster AA16 clone will do the same as well. I'd compare the depth of the Cheddite wad shot cups to those of the Remington wads as a guideline to go by. Then you will know.

Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 29

Can I substitute wads without worrying about pressure? The load I'm using is around 7500 lbs so its not high pressure.. Would a different wad alone raise pressures to a dangerous level? I have some SR 7625 that I am now using and I want to stay with the 2 9/16 loads so I can use them with the A5 and the 870. I didn't realize the wad cup needed to be deeper for the spreader to work properly. You guys are a great source of information!

Regards, Augustus

The Gualandi wad has the shortest overall length of any of the available 16 gauge wads. It is also both bigger in diameter and stiffer (less resistant to compressing) than both the Remington and Winchester designs. The Cheddite wads are probably as big in diameter as the Gualandi but appear to have a fairly well designed, longer cushion section. All of these wads are primarily designed for 2-3/4 inch shells.

As far as pressure is concerned, it is the weight and the pull or resistance of the ejecta (powder, wad, and shot) to the firing forces that determines the amount of pressure. A lighter column or a smaller diameter one will lower pressures, not raise them. So I really doubt the smaller diameter Remington or Winchester wads will raise pressures. They might actually lower them due to their smaller diameters.

The PW insert will also not raise pressures either. It does not weigh enough to matter much. A one ounce recipe will pretty much act the same with or without the insert if the column height remains the same. For instance, I use the 1-1/8 ounce SP16 wad instead of the 1 ounce R16 in all my 1 ounce PW insert spreader loads. The only thing that is changed is the depth of the shot cup. The extra 1/8th inch depth of the SP16 cup allows the insert stem to displace 1/8th ounce of shot without changing the overall column height inside the shell. (The R16 and SP16 wads have the exact same length. The cushion section of the R16 is an 1/8th inch longer and the cup an 1/8th inch shorter.) Both my 1 ounce speader and nonspreader loads use the same basic recipe and produce the same pressures and velocities.

Your first problem is that only the Gualandi appears to be suitable for use in a shorter hull. Your problem is not pressure as much as the height of your powder/wad/shot column. If you go to a longer wad design, you will most likely be unable to close the crimp properly.

However the shot cup of the Gualandi might be too shallow to readily accept the PW stem to its full depth. This can be another problem. In order for the PW wad to work, the shot must grab and hold the wad stem in place to keep the cap in front of the shot column until the entire column leaves the barrel. If during firing, the stem is pushed up out of the shot by the bottom of the shot cup, it will not stay put like it should and the speading effect will be impaired. Shortening the stem a bit can prevent this, but shortening it too much will prevent the shot from grabbing it firmly as well.

However, there is an answer if you must load 1 ounce spreader loads in a shorter overall shell. Carefully cut the shot cup and wad base away from the cushion section or middle of the SP16. Then insert the right thickness 16 gauge felt or card wads between the two pieces to keep the overall column the right height inside your shell. A very sharp blade will let you squarely and uniformly cut down the wads you need. You can experiment with different thickness solid wads to get the right height. (As I remember, the 16 gauge shell mouth must be just right between 1/4 and 5/16th of an inch longer than the top of the shot and insert to crimp well.)

The SP16 shot cup is deep enough to allow you to properly isert the PW wad stem into a full 1 ounce of shot without bumping it into the bottom of the cup. The top of the shot will also remain the same as if it were in an R16 one ounce wad. So the shot will be properly contained under the PW insert cap and inside the shot cup like it should be until everything leaves the barrel.

All you are doing is adjusting the column height to fit into your shell. The felt or card wads will not add any appreciable weight and will not increase the pull or resistance either. So if your recipe is safe with the Gualandi wad, it will be so using a modified SP16 wad. In fact, you might need to add a 1/2 grain or so of your powder to keep the pressures and velocities at their normal levels. Your loads will most likely spread better and more consistantly as well.

Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 158 Location: NW Florida

I am loading 2.5in Cheddite hulls using Gualandi 1 oz wads. My supplier, Graf&Sons, has them on back order. They have Cheddite 1 oz wads. Are these wads interchangable? Thanks, Bob