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Well I suppose I have to chime in here .

I usually shoot 3/4 OZ of 7.5's @ or above 1400 FPS this fall I was pushing them at 1520 FPS .

I tested and shot 5/8 OZ of # 9's @ 1570 FPS for the last 79 Pheasants and 9 Grouse @ all yardages out to very long range with .005 & .008 chokes in one gun .016 & .026 in another and .000 & .035 in another one .

After 3 years of taking Pheasants with the light loads , I have come to the conclusion that most folks would be better suited to shoot the light loads at High Velocity for Pheasants , the cripples would go down and kill percentages would go up .

Regards Charles

Guest

Charles I have the feeling that you are probably an above average shot. I have tried the high velocity small shot path and it got real ugly real fast, a lot of cripples for me.

I have a friend in SD, that shoots a lot of pheasants with a 410. Again he is an excellent shot.

Not sure that us mere mortals would be as efficient as you are with those loads. I think if a fella can consistently hit pheasants in the head and neck that your method works out fine. I always try to lead the head but, about 30% of the time, the pattern hits a little farther back.

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

Well I varied away from my norm yesterday and took the old Fox Sterly for a walk. It was loaded with RST 2.5" 1 oz loads with 5 shot.
It worked well on 3 roosters over the Drahthaars. Very Happy

Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 184 Location: Dover-Foxcroft, ME

Charles gets taken to task on the various boards on the small shot issue. I would not question his veracity. My hunting partner has used nothing but 3 dram trap loads in #7.5 for years. Like Charles, he's not an average shooter. I've personally watched him repeatedly take birds out to 50 yds with these loads through his 1300. Book knowledge tells me this is impossible. Usually, the birds come down head/neck shot.

In my hands #7.5s get me to 30 yds (35 yds if incomers). #6s make me look better on phez. I sometimes use a .410 on phez/grouse/woodcock. But I will only take shots out to 25 yds.

I believe that the real variable is accuracy, how close we center birds. For most of us, larger shot, and patterns, are needed.

Sam

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

I would like to see Charles's load to get @ 1400fps. I too am big proponent of high velocity, I am not ready for 3/4oz yet, but Charles has talked me into 7/8oz, they loaded and crimped better especially in the 2.5" hulls.

In lead, I wouldn't go smaller than #7 for pheasants. (hevi-shot 7.5 ok)
That is just my opinion. I still like the #5 1/2 shot on pheasants, especially on follow up shots. With 7/8 oz, still getting a good pattern, and the bigger shot size. I guess my compromise would be #6 1/2 shot! But that may be just splitting hairs, but that is the beauty of reloading.

Key to pheasants here on the plains is penetration! Even cripples on the ground with dogs can get away from you.

Charles, are you shooting wild birds or pen raised. No dog, pointing dog and or flushing dog?

Charles
What you have written goes against everything that I have read or experienced, but, sometimes that is how progress is made. I and I’m sure there are others that would appreciate it if you would share your load data. In my misspent youth I have shot pen raised pheasant with a .44 magnum hand gun using #9 shot over a pointing dog. It didn’t work that well, even at 10 feet.

Guest

Sam , glad to see we think alike, on this subject.

If I hadn't seen my friend with that 410 kill pheasants the he does I would have said Charles is full of bull bleep, But I have seen it done by an excellent shooter, sadly most of us will never be that good.

The problem with guys like my friend and Charles is, that they don't take their ability into account and they just assume that their methods will work for all of us. Trust me, they won't.

Bravo Charles!!

My problems with the light loads have nothing to do with ones ability to shoot, instead, I question the penetration/killing power of #7 1/2 shot and really question the use of #9 at ranges beyond 25 yards. There are many factors associated with an effective pheasant load and penetration is high on my list. I'm not a physicist, but if memory serves me, what goes out the barrel fast also slows down fast and 40 yards is a long way. Re hunters shooting abilities - Tom Roster conducted tests and had a 20k sampling of hunters who initially shot at 20 yard crossing targets with a 50% success ratio and he then moved out in increments to 40 yards. I don't remember the stats, but it was pitiful. I do recognize that a clay target is considerably smaller than a pheasant, but the point being is that many of us hunters are not what you would call terrific shots. And then there was that guy that could shoot blocks of wood in the air with a .22.

Just swing by The Shooting Sportsmans' sight to learn all about shot size and speed and how experts do it. Shocked

I never get into a discussion that has no end but here we seem to be a little more understanding of differences of opinion. I think the one thing I have learned is when you find a system that works for you(as an individual) keep to it and don't change it. Like the old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I sure would not expect many 16er's to adhear to my choice of 1 to 1 1/4 oz. of #6 or #5 to silence a bird, nor use a Sk/LM choke. It sounds like Charles has found his load and choke and does well. Maybe I'll change some day just not today.
Best always,
Ron

Joined: 09 Feb 2008 Posts: 14

I dont own or shoot a 16 gauge but love the forum because you guys are can do people.I have have seen a massive difference between body shot and head/neck shot game.I personally would not go to #9s but they would do the job if the head/neck could be hit to 25/30 yds max.Being able to shoot game in the head/neck is why clay targets where invented.A practiced shot is allways at an advantage .#7(lead) will allow for guessing the range wrong a few yards on close birds.On long birds I am all for alarge amount of bigger shot,but still shot at the head/neck area

Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 694 Location: MN

I shoot F2's from B and P in #5 or #7 shot. Cripples are rare but I only shoot pointed birds. I go for the dog work and when its right, birds are shot inside of 35 yards, most inside 25 yds. 7's in the first barrel...5's in the second. My favorite phez gun is choked .004 and .012.

Member Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 48 Location: NJ

I use Winchester Super X 1-1/8 oz #6 lead on wild birds in SD. I hunt private land so the lead is ok. My SxS has fixed chokes, IC/M. Does a fine job on those tough roosters. For pen reared birds in PA I use 1-1/8 oz #7.5 or #6 lead over a pointing dog, same chokes IC/M and works just fine.

Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 8

Where does one find 6 1/2 shot? Is it available?
Thanks
GPK