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Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

I'm thinking about switching to Alliat powders. I've been using Hodgdons, Clay and Longshot. How close is claydot to clays? I use clays in both 16 and 12 gauge. What does promo compare to in the hodgdons line?

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Maine

Do you mean Red Dot? I've never heard of Claydot, just Clays which is a Hodgdon product. I think both powders are thrown the same volumetrically and you use the same range of bushings for both. However, Clays is usually slightly lighter than Red Dot per equal volume.

I'm not familiar with Longshot. Is it a disc or a spherical powder? If it is a disc powder, it might be close to or the equal of Alliant Steel in performance but not in weight per volume. Alliant may of may not be producing Long Shot for Hodgedon or it might be another Australian import like Clays. If it is a spherical powder, it is probably a former Olin product.

Hodgdon does not make its powders. They buy bulk lots from other manufacturers and then blend the lots to produce consistant burn rates and performance per volumetric measure from lot to lot under their own label. However, the weights of Hodgdon labeled powders will sometimes vary from the original manufacturer's canister grade powder and vary from their own lots as well by a minor amount.

As an example, I use H110 and WW296 interchangably for all my .410 reloading. They are both a spherical Olin developement and are basically identical preformancewise. Both are produced by the former Olin facility in St Marks, Florida last I knew. I throw all my charges from the same bushing regardless of the which powder I may be using at the time. Performance has never varied appreciably over the years, but the weight of the thrown charge of H110 might vary from 296 and even from the previous lot of H110 by a 1/2 grain per volumetric charge. I do weigh several charges out of a new container and record it for reference, but I don't change the bushing. Doing so would affect the performance. Consistant volume is more important than charge weight when it comes to most Hodgdon powders in most cases. Hope this info helps.

Guest

16 Gaugeguy ,if you aren't sure why did you respond? You should at least take the time to look at Alliant and Hodgdon's website and find out what is up before speculating and going off on tangents.

All the powders mentioned are, on the market.

SPR310, call Alliant and Hodgdon and get the proper information. They both have great customer service folks, with real knowledge.

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 596 Location: 17603

16gg,
Claydot is a new Alliant powder designed to duplicate Clays, it has an orange dot, I believe it's flake, (flattened sphere), as with their other Dots. Very similar speed to Red Dot and Promo, only available in 8#'s, but supposed to be clearner burning. Promo is much closer to the canister grade powders, and can vary significantly lot to lot in terms of density, but is loaded by weight the same as Red Dot. From the data, and I don't use Hodgdon's, it would appear that all of the above, including Titewad and Clays, are very similar in burn rates, low volume high energy powders designed for 12ga target loads.
Cheers,
R*2

Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 224

spr310, I would suggest just buying a 1 lb can of claydot to experiment with. You might like it, and you might not. That way the investment is small.

That way, you can make sure the new powder fills your shell as you like, and whether of not you like the performance and patterns you get.

Good luck.

Info on Claydot.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/clay_dot.aspx

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

I was out at Alliants site befor. Not many 16 gauge recipes as you noticed. As claydot and promo are fairly new powders I do not have any recipes in my spreadsheet for them. In the 12 gauge claydot looks close to clays. As far as buyinga 1 lb. container, it's either a 360 mile roundtrip by vehichle to BPI or order it over the internet and pay the hazmat fee for 1 lb. Powder is cheaper from gamaliels anyway. So if I was to order I would rather get the eight pounds. Nobody up here carries much powder and if they do it's mostly hodgdons products in 1 lb. containers. Then they get @22.00 a lb. Just was wondering if it worth my while to order the claydots instead of clays. As 16gaugeguy doesn't know about it, maybe I should pass? Rolling Eyes

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

Okay. Let me try agaain. I've been out to all the powder companies sites and have read all the information I could find from them. I did this first. What I wanted to know, is has anybody used claydot and how did it compare to clays? As clean burning or close? Is the performance okay? I know what the powder companies say. So, anybody using it and what do you think/ I don't care if the powder is made out of flat little worms or round ones. I've read all that. And also I know about reddot, bluedot, green dot and anyother color dots there are.
Thank you
george

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 596 Location: 17603

George,
Not that it's much help at the moment, but my next jug will be ClayDot, it's a bit cheaper than Red Dot, which I have been using in the 12ga. Alliant has some Low Pressure loads that I want to try in my elderly Belgium SxS 12gax65mm.
Have you tried Grafs as a source for powders? They list ClayDot about $5/jug cheaper than RedDot, and Promo, which IS dirty, $10 less.
Switching to Alliant might save you ~15% on powder.
Cheers,
R*2

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

I think I'll order a jug from grafs also. I'm using clays for my 100 year old 12 gauge LC Smith. Using the old Activ hulls though. Hopefully I can use the recipes using claydot. I can also load using clays for the 16's and get up to over 1300fps. Works good on grouse and chukars. Also knocks down those roosters. Graf's looks like the best place to order from.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Maine

spr310, I have subbed claydot for clays in a ¾ oz. weenie load, and it worked great! Just as clean.

Guest

The gentleman asked about Alliant Promo and ClayDot and Hodgdon's Longshot. Alliant Promo and Hodgdon Longshot have been around since the late 1990's. Claydot probablty 4 to 5 years.

H110 and Winchester's 296, are old news and a good portion of the 410 shooters use either Hodgdon Lil' Gun or Alliant 410.

A guy that answers reloading questions, as often as you do, should visit the real reloading data web sites now and again, just for kicks. Then you won't end up looking foolish.

Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 184 Location: Dover-Foxcroft, ME

After I finish this last 8 pound Promo (think that makes 6.....maybe seven) I'm done with the stuff. Yeah, I liked the price.

It is the most temperature-sensitive powder I've ever used. If I lived in FL or AZ I might feel otherwise. The difference between January and July velocities in central ME can be more than 200 fps. No kidding. And that assumes a data manual load. And no, it doesn't do this only when I leave the ammo in the truck overnight........though doing that sure doesn't help things.

Things are even worse if you're looking to use Promo for weenie loads. The only weenie application for which I get satisfactory results is a 1250 fps 5/8 oz 20.

I'm going to give Claydot a try soon. If it's no better than Red Dot or 700X I'll be going back to Clays for........well, forever.........or at least 3 months.

Sam