16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 64 Location: UK

Does anybody know where I can get a 16 gauge roll turnover tool?

I've tried making one, copying my 19th-century 12gauge RTO, but I can't seem to get the head geometry right; I believe there's some sort of black magic about the 2 (or sometimes 3) lugs sticking up out of the recessed groove in the turnover head, where the rim of the turnover is formed; as far as I can tell, these lugs fold the case lips over. I've copied the profile and angle of these lugs as closely as I can (doesn't help that the lugs on the half-dozen machines I've examined all seem to be slightly different...), but when I try and roll cases with my home-made effort, I get an ugly mashed-up mess. If anyone's successfully made a 16ga RTO head, I'd be grateful for advice.

Thanks in advance.

Yep, www.ballisticproducts.com

Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 64 Location: UK

Thanks; but I've got one (the kind you use in a pillar drill) and I've had no luck with it (I'm using generic European cases, probably Fiocchi and/or Cheddite in origin). I tried making one with a more gently radiused step, but I still got (a) mashed-up heads and (b) nasty buckles and folds in the crimp rim, just like with the BPI unit.

Is there a special knack to using the BPI? I don't think I've been particularly heavy-handed with the down-feed, and I hold the case securely in a hull vise

What I'm after is the old-fashioned RTO machine with a cammed piston that drives the cartridge into the rotating head. I know they're still made in 12ga and 20ga, but I've yet to locate one in 16ga.

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Try Clay and Game right there in the UK. They just sent me a pair of 24 ga tools.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

I've got BPI's tool and have no problems roll crimping hulls. It's more of a feel then a touch. Warm up the hull, but not to warm small steady pressure, but not to much pressure. You can tell by feel when it's done. I use my drill press at low speed.
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Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 64 Location: UK

spr310 -

Guess you can't argue with results like that; I'll have to give my BPI tool another try. BTW, which cases are you using?

Hootch -

Thanks for the link. I can't see much difference between their unit and the BPI.

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

It is a little different. At least the 24ga tool is from my BPI tools. Would be hard to explain differences. But it functioned just like my BPI tools do.

Some hulls definitely are better than others for roll crimping. The Ficocchi, cheddite and BPI's "Multi-Hulls" all roll crimp very well.

I have never tried reloading the B&P hulls.

Its funny I just got thru making a few of these , 12ga. ,16ga. , 28ga.

The one Pictured above is a 16ga . In fact I am going to make up a few if anyone wants one the cost will be $20 to you in the lower 48 states .

Regards Charles

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

Joined: 29 Jan 2009 Posts: 31 Location: N. FL

Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 64 Location: UK

Inspired by what you've been telling me, I spent half an hour this afternoon reworking my BPI RTO head on the lathe. Mostly I deepened and rounded the outside edge of the slot, to encourage the case lips to curl inwards.

I'm now getting a functional turnover that keeps the overshot wad firmly in place; it doesn't look pretty, but so what?

Some cases work much better than others. My best results (annoyingly) were with British-made Eley cases, some of the first plastic cases used in this country, whcih I happen to have a stock of; they're at least 40 years old, and my chances of finding more are pretty slim...

Because so few people reload shotshells here, case quality is not a priority for manufacturers; so long as it can safely be fired once, they don't care.

I envy you your choice of Remington, Winchester, Federal &c!

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2006 Posts: 602 Location: western pa

Lemming, If you could, what are the diameters and slot depth on the business end of your tool, now that you have reworked it? I ask because I am going to turn one and it would save me some experimentation time if I had a starting point. Thanks. Fred

Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 64 Location: UK

Fred -

Things have moved on since my last post...

It's been raining all day, so I had time on my hands; I'd cut the BPI about as much as I dared, so I made up a tool from scratch.

Rather than machining it in one piece, I made a centre section out of 1/2" bar, with a shank turned down to 3/8". The 1/2" was threaded to fit into a 7/8" XD collar. That way, I was able to get a much better radius in the bottom of the slot; also, it was easier to polish the inside of the slot to a mirror finish this way, to avoid toolmarks scoring up the plastic of the case. The results are better (tho' still not as good as the ones in spr310's photo). You can see from the photo of Charles Hammack's unit how the slot has to be gently and distinctly radiused.

Dimensions;

External diameter; 0.875"
Internal diameter of the central boss; 0.500"
Width of slot; 0.1375"
Depth of slot; 0.350"
Thickness of outer wall; 0.050"
The centre boss is recessed 0.175" below the outer ring

The results I'm getting still aren't perfect, so this is very much a starting point...

Good luck!

Hey folks , have this to report .

I went to use the 16ga tools this evening with poor outcome , now the 12ga and 28ga ones I made the crimps come out wonderful , I must have gotten my geometry off a wee bit on the 16ga ones , am looking at what I have done wrong compaired to the 12ga unit and I think I have figgured it out .

So I will go back and lick my calf over concerning the 16ga tools .

I will let you all know when I get it licked .

Regards Charles