16ga.com ~ View topic

Guest

Mike,

You really can't isolate the wad out of the equation, sometimes a wad change can be a big difference.

Anyway, I know what you are driving at and I do agree with you up to the point where we go over the maximum average working pressure. A steady diet of 13,000 PSI on some guns, will loosen actions or break parts prematurely.

I do agree that this preoccupation with low pressure is ridiculous. Any firearm made in this country with steel barrels was probably proofed with loads that have pressures of 16,000 to 19,000 PSI. Anything under 11,500 PSI is fine for guns with modern actions and steel barrels.

I refuse to get into any debates over the European guns, Damascus guns or recoil versus pressure.

Hello BOYS !!

I am going to open the floodgates with this post.

I use 16 gauge MagTech brass hulls and 12 gauge wads,
I use 24 gauge MagTech brass hulls and 20 gauge wads.

I have experienced NO problems, NO pressure concerns, NO issues as all.

Enjoy the day
Mike

Guest

Skeetx,

How does that open the floodgates. Brass shotshells aren't even worth a look.

*Last edited by skeettx on Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total*

Dogchaser37
You should really try brass some time
You can get 1 1/2 ounce of shot in there if you really want and would be GREAT for non-tox
Mike

Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 107

Thanks for the great insight, I appreciate being able to benifit from your experiances,

With my reloading I have done alot of patterning 100's of pallet papers and feed sacks shot, and some times what you think should be simply is not.

I was hoping that someone might referance the load on the low-preasure sheet using the 20 gauge ORANGE DUSTER .......where Armbust stated wide swing in preasure, but not so much variance in vel.

BRUCE

Guest

Mike,

I really can appreciate the brass shells, but for pumps and autoloaders, I don't feel comfortable with the way the components are held in place.

That's why I have to dismiss the notion.

Dogchaser37
I can understand that view, many have had difficulty in over shot wad adhesion.
But I would love to shoot a few ducks with my Browning Pigeon Grade Superposed with non-tox in the 16 gauge brass hulls,

YEEE HaWWW !! What fun

Enjoy the evening
Mike

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

Ole "never wrong and never in doubt" is at it again.

Read Sherman Bell's, Finding Out For Myself article in the Double Gun Journal where he provides instrument obtained data revealing that SR 7625 has a pressure curve virtually identical to black powder.

Guest

GG,

No comment!

Too bad you got your ass runover though!!

Guest

OK GG,

I am going to be very nice with my response, I promise.

You are correct that black powder (actually black powder is considered an explosive)burns at the same rate whether confined or unconfined, and that smokeless powder burns faster confined then it does unconfined.

However you cannot change the burn rate of a given powder just because you confine it and/or apply resistance to it. The burn rate of a smokeless powder is controlled by its chemical make-up, the size and shape of the powder kernels and the deterent coating that is applied to the outside of the powder kernels. The burn rate is then determined by a 'closed bomb test'. I am sure you have seen the charts that list all the reloading powders from fast to slow. The closed bomb test results are how the powders are listed on those charts.

So while more 'resistance' or 'pull' or comfinement applied to a given smokeless powder might change the peak pressure and time curve, you don't change the burn rate of the powder. The 'burn rate' of a powder is determined by the closed bomb test.

We might actually be agreeing about this subject but our ideas of 'burn rate' definition might be a little different.

DC,I suggest you think about the definition of the words, RATE and CURVE.

Smokeless propellants have a variable combustion rate which is determined by the conditions under which they are ignited. More resistance increases the pressure build up which increases the rate of combustion which increases the pressure build which in turn accelerates the combustion rate and so forth until A) the resistance is overcome and the ejecta is expelled, B) the combustion chamber bursts, or C) all the available oxygen producing chemicals are used up and combustion stops. If the resistance is overcome or the combustion chamber bursts, the combustion rate decreases as the ejecta is expelled and the pressure is relieved. This is what produces the pressure curve refered to, the decreasing rate of combustion and the added space as the ejecta moves away from the combustion chamber. Under a different set of conditions, the pressure curve will also be different as well and therefore, variable.

FYI Woodcock, SR7625 may have a combustion rate similar to a certain type of black powder under a certain set of conditions. However, SR7625 is a single based (nitrocellulose based) smokeless propellant. It's combustion rate and pressure curve is also variable according to the conditions as well.

There are also different grades of Black Powder with different combustion rates based on a number of things.

I suggest you also get some more background in this matter before you jump into the discussion. Take Sherman with you please. Notice I used the term suggestion. I would not dream of telling you what to do or say or think etc. That would be infringing on your right to choose to remain somewhat ignorant about the subject at hand. Rolling Eyes

DC, were you not the one to jump in to contradict my initial reply to the question? Have you not been the one attempting to correct some precieved mistake, edit me, and order me about like you are somehow been appointed my overseer--not only on this thread but on several others? You have been infringing. Not me.

Do us all a favor. From now on, why not simply ignore my posts instead of blindly and incessantly attacking them. This way, we can manage to keep the peace. Either that or you can simply KMA as well. Your choice. But so try to stop ordering me around. You look like any other foolishly arrogant bully when you do. It will accomplish nothing except give me more opportunities to poke more fun at you. You don't seem to be able to handle that either. Thanks for considering the matter.

Guest

If you are relating (RATE) to speed dogchaser is correct.

Guest

16 GG,

Don't bother me with BS.

Every powder has a finite burn rate, in other words it will only burn just so fast. I already agreed that depending on the resistance in a given load, you will change the pressure and time curve.

I will NOT respond to you again. On any topic.

If you can't figure out when a guy is giving you the chance to step to the plate and be a gentleman, you need to pull your EGO out from in front of your eyes so that you can see the light of day.

Now go fuck yourself.

[quote="dogchaser37"]16 GG,
".....I will NOT respond to you again. On any topic......"

Well, I thank you for that. As for the rest of your trash, I will simply consider that the price of peace and say no more either. Thankfully, it appears we have a truce. Amen to that.