16ga.com ~ View topic - Sub-gauge loads

Guest

OK, Everyone,

EXCEPT for the folks that are RECOIL sensitive (PLEASE DON"T GET INTO THE RECOIL DEBATE).

Why are so many folks interested in taking such a perfect cartridge, the 16 Gauge, and making it into a .410 bore and/or 28 Gauge?

The gauge is very well suited to 7/8, 1, 1 1/8, even 1 1/4 oz. loads. We have all the components to load these 4 shot charge weights (Thanks Charles), without a lot of B.S., self imposed, screwing around with pinto beans and Cherios etc.

The velocity excuse is nonsense, there are loads with 800-X, Longshot, Blue Dot and others that will give all the velocity that is needed (1,300 FPS+).

Do folks just like doing stupid stuff, or is there a purpose to handcuffing the 16 Gauge.

Simple-- economy, simplicity, and performance.

The 16 gauge can now be used to cover the entire upland hunting requirement spectrum form end to end. It handles the heaviest requirements adequately if not perfectly. It outshines the 20 through .410 for hunting hands down.

Take the 3/4 ounce 16 gauge load. These little beauties will shoot faster, pattern better, and hit harder than any 28 gauge load ever will. If you doubt it, then try some. The same load is so much more effective than the .410 13/16 -3/4 ounce hunting load, it is almost a joke to even compare the two. we can load the 16 down. We can't load the rest up to match it.

As far as available and affordable guns go, the modern 16 ga built on the commonly mass produced 20/28/.410 frame is about as light and as well balanced as any of the other gauges so built, but much more universally useful for hunting. It is far more simple and economical to get a 16 and reload for it than to buy the other three gauges and the ammo for them. One gun does it all. (Yeah. The very idea rankles the gun nut in me too. The very idea of only one gun is silly ain't it. Laughing

)

The weight of the average modern 16 at 6.5 to 7 pounds is just about ideal for many wingshooters. It weighs enough to have great handling and shooting characteristics without being heavy enough to weigh us down like a 12 can. Anthing lighter than 6.5 pounds can be whippy and too light for many folks.

So there it is. Agree or disagree if you want. But you can't really argue effectively against the gauge on it's own website can you. So don't even try. Us 16'ers just ain't listening to such blasphemy. Laughing

Guest

16 Gaugeguy,

I already understand why I want a 16 gauge,

I asked why guys load it down?

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 118 Location: N.Y.

Guest

If what 16 Gaugeguy would write was in line with the question, I wouldn't have responded the way I did. I guess he is at least consistent,

I believe you could say I don't care much for his style.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

I'm not going to get in the middle of this pissing contest. Wink

But, Ill say this. I shoot 7/8 and 1 oz loads in my 16 gauge guns.
If I need, or want more than 1 oz, I'll move up to a 12 or 10 gauge.
If I need, or want, to shoot less than 7/8 oz, I'll shoot a 28 or 410.
I hope everyone has a Great Day, and spring is just around the corner. Very Happy

Uh, Gee dogchaser,

What's wrong? Forget to take your meds this morning? Maybe you need a stronger presciption!

I have been reading this forum for 4 years and this is the first time I have ever seen anyone call another member a dumb***K.

16GG may be opinionated, just like you, and he does get longwinded sometimes but I hardly think he or anyone else on this board deserves being called stupid or a dumb***K Exclamation

Maybe this is why we don't see you on the low pressure group forums anymore after all the name calling you did regarding the recoil impulse thread last month.

Chill out man.

Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 64 Location: UK

[quote="dogchaser37"]OK, Everyone,

EXCEPT for the folks that are RECOIL sensitive (PLEASE DON"T GET INTO THE RECOIL DEBATE).

Why are so many folks interested in taking such a perfect cartridge, the 16 Gauge, and making it into a .410 bore and/or 28 Gauge?

[...]

Do folks just like doing stupid stuff, or is there a purpose to handcuffing the 16 Gauge.[/quote]

I remember thinking something along these lines when the International Shooting Union, or whoever the hell it was, decreed that the maximum shot load for international competition was to be 28 grams.

The British and European cartridge manufacturers immediately changed all their cheap target loads from 32 gram (ounce and an eighth) to 28 (ounce). If you wanted a 32 gram load, you had to pay a lot more for a "field" or "hunting" load.

So; big deal. But some of us [/i]like[i] the extra eighth ounce. Some of us (horror) used the cheap clay shells for bird hunting, instead of paying extra for what was essentially the same load in a prettier box.

Why, I asked myself at the time, has the ISU, which is meant to be on our side, decided to abolish the 12 gauge in favour of the 20?

In the event, I don't notice any more. If I miss a clay target with a 12 gauge, it's almost certainly pilot error rather than the lack of a few extra pellets. Even so; I didn't like that it was [/i]compulsory[i]...

Homeloaders experimenting with different shot weights, however, isn't compulsory. You don't have to do it if you don't want to. Personally, I like to have as many pellets in my cartridge as I can, on the grounds that I'm more likely to hit something that way. If someone wants to download, for whatever reason - maybe he's bored with straight 25X25 each time and wants to make it more interesting - that's fine by me. Whatever lights your candle.

So long as it doesn't interere with my range of choices, I have no problem with anyone else making the most of theirs. Besides, experimenting, trying something different, customising, making for ourselves something different from what you can buy in a store, is a very large proportion of what reloading is all about, isn't it?

I can understand why Dogchaser feels bewildered at why anybody should want to fix something as patently not-broke as the traditional 16 gauge. But; as stated above, you don't have to do it if you don't want to.

The ISU 28 gram rule actually did me a favor. It sent me straight back to the reloading bench, to load my own 32 gram loads, and also led me to thinking about shooting my permitted 28 grams out of a gun better suited to the job - namely, the glorious 16.

In fact, if it hadn't been for the ISU, I'd probably still be a 12 gauge only shooter, and never have owned a 16. Thanks, guys.[/i]

Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 443

Or This:

Because I want to.

sv

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Maine

Have loaded quite a few ½ oz. 20g loads for fun practice on the skeet field, but actually found it was easier to hit s__t with than a .410, FWIW. Not a serious proposition though, messing with fillers gets annoying.

Guest

The reason, I asked the question was, it seems as though a lot of folks are really looking for these super light loads in the 16 gauge, almost to the point of being anti 1 ounce and heavier.

The square load is the really the 'standard' judging from the talk.

But, the are a pile of guys looking to the sub-gauge loads as if they were the "Big Secret", and the end all in the 16 gauge.

Do the sub-gauge loads make the 16 Gauge better or worse?

We don't need different this gauge is already saddled with that name tag. In large part, is why we struggle to keep the components we have.

Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 64 Location: UK

[quote="dogchaser37"]The reason, I asked the question was, it seems as though a lot of folks are really looking for these super light loads in the 16 gauge, almost to the point of being anti 1 ounce and heavier.

The square load is the really the 'standard' judging from the talk.

But, the are a pile of guys looking to the sub-gauge loads as if they were the "Big Secret", and the end all in the 16 gauge.

[/quote]

Good point. Maybe it's just because the ounce and ounce-and-eighth loads have been around for well over a century, and there's not much more worthwhile research to be done on them, it'd just be re-inventing the wheel; whereas developing light loads has been, till quite recently, an unexplored area where there are opportunities for innovation and development.

I guess there's an argument for saying that we don't know what the 16ga is capable of until we've tried all the possibilities, to see if they're worthwhile.

Me, I can't help thinking that exploring the potential of the 7/8oz or lighter load is like exploring the potential of shooting with one hand tied behind my back. But if that's what folks want to do, let 'em.

Guest

Lemming,

I agree. If I were a truly great shot, I would be shooting a .410. But I am just an average shooter. When I get to the very light shot charges my shooting goes waaaaaaaaay downhill.

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 596 Location: 17603

Gents,
Light for gauge loads have, at least for me, some advantages. Primarily, with the recent spike in lead prices, now thankfully dropping back, it offered a cost advantage, more loads per bag of shot.
They also are substantially higher velocity, suits my 'shooting timing' on claybirds. I for one think there is an appreciable difference with an HV load when pulling the trigger and seeing a bird break vs a target load 150-200fps slower.
Pellet count can remain the same per load, just drop back a size. And while ballistics will tell you that the smaller pellet loses energy and velocity faster than the larger one, over the normal shotgun ranges of 40yds or less, breaking a bird with 3/4oz of #8.5 in a 20ga dusts one as effectively as 1oz of #7.5's in a 12ga. Proved it this afternoon at the clays course. I did get 2 more birds with the A5 12 than the SKB XL300, but that's more likely the operator than the fault of the load effectiveness. No question that shooting and carrying, the 20ga is lighter, heft AND recoil.
And as mentioned, it's fun to experiment, and shoot loads that you
CAN'T buy.
Cheers,
R*2