16ga.com ~ View topic - Sub-gauge loads

Guest

The real value of the light loads for me comes when I'm shooting targets with a very light 16 gauge gun. My Merkel 1620 weighs 6 lbs even and the 3/4 oz loads I load for skeet are plenty enough for breaking skeet targets and the recoil will not beat me down after a few rounds. I like a 7/8 oz load for my sporting clays with that gun and again, it IS the issue of reduced recoil while getting practice with the gun that I use on wild birds. For hunting I do shoot 1 oz and 1 1/8 ounce loads, but they're simply not necessary for practice, and they simply kick too much for sustained shooting at targets.

If I used my 7 lb. Remington 11 all the time for target practice then sure, the heavier loads would be just fine.

I have my 16 gauge MEC Grabber set up for 3/4 and 7/8 ounce loads. I just simply swap the bar when I want to switch. I have a single stage 16 gauge press for any hunting loads I want to wump up, but lately I've been using strictly factory loads for hunting mainly because I have so darn many stashed away and I need to use them up.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Maine

Member Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 348 Location: Missouri

For many of us skeet and sporting clays is a fun way to keep tuned up for hunting season.

Why shoot heavier loads through our lightweight 16's when we don't have to?

Plus we save a little - like an extra box of shells per bag of shot by dropping 1/8 oz of shot.

Sounds like a no brainer to me!

Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 64 Location: UK

[quote="Rrusse11"][size=14][color=darkgreen][b]Gents,
Light for gauge loads have, at least for me, some advantages. Primarily, with the recent spike in lead prices, now thankfully dropping back, it offered a cost advantage, more loads per bag of shot.
They also are substantially higher velocity, suits my 'shooting timing' on claybirds. I for one think there is an appreciable difference with an HV load when pulling the trigger and seeing a bird break vs a target load 150-200fps slower.
quote]

I take your point regarding using less lead; not an issue for me, since I make my own shot from scrap I usually manage to scrounge for free. Conversely, some HV reduced-shot loads use a grain or so more powder than LV full-charge loads; powder is VERY expensive over here, also hard to find. Most of my loading is premised on using as little powder as possible...

I've never been all that interested in high velocity for its own sake, especially on clay targets; I believe that high velocity can sometimes adversely affect patterns, and the advantage is (for me) illusory. I just lead the bird a fraction more, if necessary - and usually, in my experience, the difference an extra 100fps makes is marginal; the difference, maybe, between a clay target breaking in 4 pieces as opposed to vanishing in a cloud of dust. I can't say I've ever noticed any difference in my clayshooting scores between HV and LV ammunition.

Shooting at live birds, yes, I like a reasonably high velocity to ensure a clean kill. But I also want as many pellets as I can get, for the same reason.

It is, of course, entirely a matter of personal preference. And recoil and chamber pressure issues, which we haven't discussed in this thread, are an important factor in deciding which route you choose to follow

Guest

Squareload,

I haven't posted anything on the group website since the recoil topics, as there isn't much activity over there, at least nothing that I have knowledge of or interest in.

I guess you like to listen to this 16 Gaugeguy ramble on about topics he knows very little about. His statements are many times misleading and sometimes outright fabrications. I take issue with that as he is going to get someone in trouble. 16 Gaugeguy has a very good grasp on the English language, and this leads folks to believe he knows something about firearms and cartridges.

How the hell would you know. Your apparently challenged reading skills would prevent you from judging my command of the mother tongue one way or another. Laughing

Geez, this is too easy. Cool

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 596 Location: 17603

"recoil and chamber pressure issues,"

Lemming,
Interesting that for you the economies are transposed. Powder only costs me $12US/#, and readily available. On velocity, I think you've hit the nail on the head, pieces, or dust. I only started shooting claybirds in the last 4 years, and the few times I have switched to LV loads, it DID affect my scores. Like I say, personal timing, it's a preference. I try and match ~ velocities on all the gauges.
I will confess to fiddling with loads, so I use slower powders to give some headroom on pressure possibilities, the coupla' of extra grains are inconsequential for my circumstances. On recoil, and I don't want to start the unending debate again,,, lol, but on the figures, less load at higher velocity ends up being equivalent to heavier loads at slower velocity.
Pellet count, well, I just change the size, 1oz of 7 1/2 = 350; 7/8oz of #8 = 359; 3/4oz of 8 1/2 = 363; 5/8oz of 9 = 365. So pattern density, all things being equal, remains the same.
Cheers,
R*2

Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 64 Location: UK

Rrusse11 -

For clayshooting, you're absolutely right; downsizing the pellets maintains the pattern (tho', again, not an option for me; my home-made shot only comes in #7...), provided you're shooting at less-than-extreme range. At 40 yards or so, factors such as air resistance cause the smaller pellets to lose velocity earlier than the bigger pellets do, resulting in (a) pellets that rattle off the target without busting it, (b) patterns getting ragged and showing holes a target can fly through.

Not an issue at conventional clayshooting distances. At the small clay shoot I help run, the guy who sets up the traps, a man of diabolical cunning and malicious intent (he's a lawyer; go figure) loves to put on targets at 40 yards +. Those of us who shoot #8 tend to be at a disadvantage - though at the end of the day we pick up a surprising number of unbroken clays with single pellet holes neatly drilled through the thin central section!

Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 596 Location: 17603

Lemming,
My #7 load is 1 1/4oz in a 3" hull,,,,,, Very Happy

. It's actually not too bad if I shoot it in my SKB gas semi-auto.
Don't shoot it much, but it sure busts birds from the 26yd line at the trap range. I hear ya' after 40yds with small shot. We've got one station that is a wobble trap they got pretty well wound up, and with the 20ga (3/4oz of #8 1/2) and a mod choke I better get on 'em quick. The A5 12ga with the full choke barrel, (1 oz of #7 1/2), deals with nicely with though, even if the second bird "gets away". My "extrapolated velocity" target is circa 1325fps.
What kind of a shotmaking setup? Can't change the orifice size?
Cheers,
R*2

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 64 Location: UK

[quote
What kind of a shotmaking setup? Can't change the orifice size?
quote]

Home-madew copy of a short-lived design that was around in the UK about 15 years ago. The drop hole sizes are fixe. In theory, you can regulate the size of shot by how fast the molten lead pours through (ie how much stuff you pile in the hopper); but I've found that any change away from the 'optimum' rate means either the holes get clogged up or you get too much misshapen garbage in with the shot.

I've seen a website for a US made shot-making rig that looks pretty good; electric powered rather than propane-fired, and with adjustable jets for different sizes.

Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 184 Location: Dover-Foxcroft, ME

Pumpgun got me to try 3/4 and 7/8 oz 16s. I can say that they will do anything that can be done with 3/4 and 7/8 oz through any gauge.

3/4 oz is not the way to tackle 40 yd targets or long shots at phez. I have used 7/8 oz on preserve birds to......well, a long way off.

Light payload 16s pattern tighter - insofar as percentages are concerned. But this does not - repeat, does not - mean pattern density is maintained vs heavier payloads. So I find it necessary to use more constriction with the weenies.

What's the lower limit. Well, Pumpgun has done pretty well with 5/8 oz 16s (he has run skeet 100s with 3/4 oz 16s). But I think he'd agree that 3/4 oz is about it for most purposes in the 16.

Sam

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 31 Location: kansas city

Well dang!

I JUST signed up to this site thinking "finally I've found a place for some good 16 gauge info".... I wasn't expecting so much hostility right off the bat.

Not sure if I even want to post or not but I will anyway.

Maybe I'm an oddball but I shoot shotguns to hunt critters. Sure I sometimes shoot claybirds but I don't have access to a real range nearby. Usually it's a matter of holding the gun in my left hand, throwing with the right, drop the thrower and shoot the bird. Far from a "serious" target shooter but I do pretty good at it my way.

Anyway, for years I've been hearing about light shot loads like a 2" 12 gauge (I think it was 2", might have been 2.5") anyway, it was a 20 gauge load in a 12 gauge touted as providing a very flat pattern, less recoil, less stringing etc. Always thought it sounded like a good idea for hunting but the guns were usually British or Italian made and way out of my price range. I've never seen the ammo for sale either. Still the idea has always stuck with me. I hunt a lot of small game like squirrel and rabbits and honestly for that I prefer a 410. For some reason I can kill far more rabbits with my 410 and 2.5" #4 shot loads than I ever did with my 870 12 gauge. Part of it is that I take a split second more to be sure I'm on target I'm sure but part of it is not being afraid of blowing the rabbit in half (OK, I'm exagerating but shoot a running bunny at 15 yards with a 12 gauge and it'll break almost every bone in it and you'll be picking shot from every bite)

Now I'm shooting a 2.5" 16g SXS choked full and extra full and while I love the gun, it still throws too much shot in too tight of a pattern for fast moving bunnies where shots are restricted to under 20 yards much of the time due to brush. I'd be VERY interested in a light load of large shot like 4's or even 2's for a hunting load. Something equaling a 28 gauge would be great. Rabbits are plain fragile and 2 to 4 pellets that have enough power and mass to go clean through are more than enough to do the job.

So really, I guess my answer to "why download" would simply be some hunting applications benefit from it.

Targets, well, I guess there's always the idea of challenging yourself. Nothing wrong with that is there?

Hello dave bulla
Great post and WELCOME

No hostility, just hormones Laughing

Your post is well taken, yes fit the load for the quest.
Enjoy the day
Mike

Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 64 Location: UK

[quote="dave bulla"] Part of it is that I take a split second more to be sure I'm on target I'm sure but part of it is not being afraid of blowing the rabbit in half (OK, I'm exagerating but shoot a running bunny at 15 yards with a 12 gauge and it'll break almost every bone in it and you'll be picking shot from every bite)
quote]

dave -

A friend of mine had the same problem. He bought a 16ga Sauer drilling with very tight chokes, didn't want to blow edible birds to smithereens but didn't want anyone taking a reamer to his beautiful barrels either. He doesn't reload, so he asked me what I knew about spreader wads.

I told him they don't work, they're a waste of time etc; but, to humour him, I got hold of some 16ga Polywads and a rollturnover machine, messed around for a while with various recipes, and came up with a load that throws really nice consistent improved cylinder type patterns out of a full choke.

Needless to say, I ate my words. Tasted a bit like chicken.

Spreader wad loads add a lot of potential to a tightly choked gun. With spreaders in the right barrel of a sxs and ordinary shells in the left, you've got all the options (provided you've got double triggers, not one of those confounded new-fangled single triggers...). A rabbit at 15 yards doesn't have to be instant goulash any more, and you can still bowl over the 40-yard customer with the left tube.

Also, you don't have to handicap yourself by reducing the number of pellets. Clay birds are a different issue; when I'm shooting at something living, I want all the pellets I can get, to give me the best possible chance of killing it cleanly. I'm not a good enough shot to shoot with one hand tied behind my back. I don't think anybody's a good enough shot to risk injuring a living creature because of a self-inflicted handicap.