16ga.com ~ View topic - Sub-gauge loads 2

Guest

OK,

What I got for an answer in the first topic, since there hasn't been too many responses, is that most folks are using the sub-gauge loads as a recoil reduction method??!!

There are a few guys saying that they really like the lighter loads: economy, experiments, higher velocity, because they can etc. Certainly not very overwhelming though.

So do I have this right, that most folks shoot the sub-gauge loads because they don't recoil and you can, for the most part be effective for clays and upland game?

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

Not bad for a thread that's only gone about one day, yeah I'd agree most like the lower recoil plus the cost savings. If 3/4oz is enough shot to break all of the Skeet targets your pointing deserves to break, why shoot 1 1/8oz? 7/8oz is just fine for a lot of Trap shooting as well, and again if you're not trying to win something every time you shoulder your gun why put yourself and your old gun to more stress than you need? In a light bird gun typical of most 16's even the factory 1oz loads of 1230fps, give or take, are no fun for 50 rounds.

Everyone's also got their limit of recoil before the fun level drops. There are Trap and Skeet shooters who think nothing of 500-1500 targets in a weekend but they're a minority. Most I've done was 500 Trap doubles events but there was no way I was coming back on Sunday for 500 singles. Others just keep on shooting, and they can shoot 1 1/8oz 3dr shells without slowing down. For some, a box of shells in a day is enough at targets. Wide variety of people, so I'm not sure you can get a comprehensive answer to your question.

What do you want to do with the answer you eventually get?

kgb

Guest

Originally, I wanted to leave out the subject of recoil, but as the thread went on I realized if I didn't welcome that segment I might be leaving out the prime reason guys like the lighter loads. I just want to get an honest opinion of the subgauge loads in the 16 gauge.

I really don't care what the predominant reason ends up being. But since a lot of folks are shooting the light payloads, I wanted to get a sense of how effective the sub-gauge loads really are.

I just didn't want to start the recoil debate. I still don't.

Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 18

How about just because it is fun?

I don't have inserts, but they sound fun to play around with.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2350 Location: West MI

dc37, my vote is for practical economy, learning something different & because I can. I reload 16ga for upland game and the "sub gauge" loads work fine if I choose the right pellet size & shot charge (pellet count) for the job.

Good luck with your inquiry, Mike

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Maine

I only reload light payloads for clays, 3/4 for skeet, and 7/8 for 5 stand. Recoil isn't an issue for me, with this gauge, for hunting.

A light load will often not tear up the birds as much either. I've hunted for a mixed bag many a day. I packa 1 ounce load of #6 shot for pheasant, and a 3/4 ounce load of #7.5 for quail. The 1 ounce load will often puree a quail. That is a waste of some delicious eating.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

Why? Because I'm cheap.

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

I dropped to 7/8oz on nice shot loads for economy and increase in velocity. Will do the same on qrouse, quail and dove loads. But when it comes to pheasants, I will be using 1 oz loads probably. It just depends, I presently like my 7/8oz load as all components fit nicely, easily, crimps right on without hassle, and the patterns are fine. So may just stay that way.

I still have some TM loads etc I can use if I want more payload.

Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 64 Location: UK

Of all the many factors involved in load selection and design, recoil is the one that I take least notice of.

I've been shooting for 35 years; never had a bruise, never been particularly aware of recoil. Noise, yes; the noise of an 8 bore or a 375 H&H has left me shellshocked more than once. But not recoil. It's hardly rocket science. If the gun fits you, and you put the stock in the right place in your shoulder and you put your face on the right place on the stock, recoil should not be a problem. I'm neither big nor strong; but a few years ago, when I had the money and the time, I'd shoot off 250 rounds in a day with no ill effects whatsoever.

Recoil as a symptom of high pressure is another matter; particularly if, like me, you have a taste for vintage ironmongery that can't take the high pressures.

Most (not all) sub-gauge loads appear to generate moderate to low pressures, and that's an entirely valid argument in their favour. That said, lower-velocity full-charge loads with moderate to low pressures do exist. I'll happily drop a 100fps or so if it means I can keep a full payload and keep the pressures down as well.

Quite often, lower velocities make for better patterns, too.

Late 19th and early 20th century loads bumbling along at 1100 fps or thereabouts killed a skyful of birds with no trouble at all. Smokeless powder won out over black not because of the potential for higher velocity but because it was, well, smokeless; and it didn't rot the barrels so much, and you could use less of it, and a bunch of other reasons aside from feet per second.

Keeping the pressures down; good idea. To achieve that goal, given a choice between fewer pellets going faster and more pellets going slower, give me more pellets every time!

Member Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 98 Location: Ballwin, MO

Recoil was the prime reason I switched to lighter loads in all my gauges initially. I just don't like recoil. While some tolerate it better than others, I don't think anyone "likes" recoil. Call me a "woosie" if you feel like it, because I don't mind! While some are not bothered by recoil, the slapping of your face and shoulder ever time you pull the trigger, well-fitting gun or not, does nothing to increase the enjoyment of shooting.

But because I enjoy shooting, I can put up with recoil. Once I found out that my scores at skeet were better when I shot light, 7/8 oz loads in the 12 ga. the natural extension was to try them(lighter loads) in the others. My standard load for 20 gauge is now 3/4 oz, and the 16 is only waiting for the new wads so I can eliminate all the card wads, fillers, etc for the easy-recoiling target loads I use most of the time for skeet, trap, and sporting clays.

When I am shooting live game, I do use a 1 oz load in the 16, and even the 12 ga because I hate to see a bird fly off after being hit, and the 1 oz loads in either gauge seem to give me fewer cripples.

For those who don't mind recoil, you have my admiration. But at the end of the day, I have more birds in hand, and targets broken, when I shoot mainly lighter, "sub-gauge" loads. Economy is another part of the equation, but at current prices for shot, a 1/8 oz difference in shot makes a difference of about 28 cents per box in shot cost - not enought for the casual reloader to notice. Maybe for the dedicated competition shooter who shoots hundreds of shells a day, several days a week, but not for me. While the extra 1/8 oz - 1/4 oz of shot can make a difference in hitting a few more birds in competition, and each target is critical, I find that after about 50 shells of full-power 1 1/8 oz 12 gauge, I start to anticipate the recoil( even from a gas-operated semi-auto) and lose more birds from flinching that I gain from the extra shot.

As I said previously, I am a woose when it comes to recoil from shotguns or rifles, and I wear the title proudly! But for some reason, recoil from handguns, while not enjoyable, is more tolerable to me. Best wishes and happy shooting!

Joined: 28 Mar 2009 Posts: 31 Location: kansas city

HI guys, I'm totally new here as of a couple days now.

I've been posting a couple times on the other sub gauge thread and just saw this one.

My whole take on light loads was from the standpoint of hunting only. I prefer a load that will not tear up an animal over one that allows me to shoot a few yards farther.

Also, while reading, I kept thinking to myself, why do these guys even mention recoil? A 16 gauge is a pure joy to shoot even with full factory loads. Then I got to reading about some of you shooting hundreds of rounds per day and the light kinda went on. I don't think I've ever shot more than 100 to 125 rounds of anything in one day. I mainly hunt. A typical day in the field may result in from zero to a half dozen shots at best. A typical practice session is me throwing for my self, dropping the thrower and shooting. Maybe two or three boxes worth in a session. Pretty hillbilly compared to you guys who shoot competitively and shoot 500 plus rounds in a day. WOW!!!

For hunting squirrel and rabbit, I really love a 410. If I could load a 16 gauge somewhere near 28 gauge and get good patterns, I'd be VERY interested.

Guest

Dave you need to get out to Powder Creek and shoot their Skeet, Trap or Sporting Clays courses. Their Sporting Clays course is usually set up with mostly target presentations that replicate hunting situations with a couple "see if you can hit this" targets thrown in to keep things interesting.

I you reload the 16 gauge reloaders group has some decent 3/4 ounce loads and a whole bunch of 7/8th ounce loads that will fill your requirements to a T.