16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 224

Here are some number crunching for you guys:

I made the following assumptions: You use the same hull/primer/powder type and amount for each round, so those amounts cancel out. (I know the powder amount will be a little different...but I judged that cost difference to be negligable.)

I used the following data:

lead: $25/25 lb bag
Grafs 1621 wad: $10.99/500wads
Grafs NC28 Nitro Card: $9.39/500
BPI 1621 wad: $5.99/200
BPI NC28 Nitro Card: $7.99/500
Recobs DR16 wad #1: $31/1000
Recobs DR16 wad #2: $15.99/500
For a 7/8 oz load using a GU-1621 wad, you use (1) 1/8" 28ga Nitro Card for spacing, and if you ordered your wads from Grafs...you got the NC28 from Grafs as well (the same for BPI).

Now the numbers: (prices are for per 1000 shells made)

1 oz load, 1621 wad from Grafs: $84.48
1 oz load, 1621 wad from BPI: $92.45
7/8 oz load, DR16 wad from Recobs (bought per 1000): $85.69
7/8 oz load, DR16 wad from Recobs (bought per 500): $86.67
7/8 oz load, 1621 Graf wad and 1/8 NC28: $95.45
7/8 oz load, 1621 BPI wad and 1/8 NC28: $100.62

(Note that these calculations show only the cost of wad/filler/lead...not what a total shell will cost as powder/hull/primer have been left out.)

Now, keep in mind that Grafs seems to always be out of the 1621 wads. I didn't figure in shipping costs either.

The price for a 7/8 oz load using the new DR16 is very comparable to a 1 oz load using the 1621 wad, and better than a 7/8 oz wad using the 1621 wad and a purchased filler wad. Of course, if you make your own filler wads or use cheerios...you will come out better.

The new wad seems like a fair deal to me. And if the price of lead shoots up again, it will be an even better deal.

There is one more possible factor at work here folks. I'm probably going to get my ass shot off for bringing it to light, but here goes.

We have a certain commercial faction within our group. Charles has introduced some stiff competion for some of these people. The new wad is a far better alternative for these delightful to shoot light loads so many of us have come to really like. The wad will eliminate the need for all the extra componants and maybe even some tools.

Some folks are not going to be happy with the situation and might not see the opportunity the wad offers to everyone. So there might be some prejudiced sniping going on. Just ignore it. Charles's creation has helped us all. If some folks aren't smart enough to take advantage of the wad, then that is just too bad for them. Forget 'em and enjoy the wad and the pleasure it will bring you. For those of us who are smart enough to see the wad for what it is, things have just improved. Good for us. Thanks again Charles. You really did it.

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

FYI
Just got off the telephone with the folks at Precision Reloading.. They were tardy in placing their order (apparently) and indicated that the new '16ga. lite' wads would not be available 'til around the 20th. Crying or Very sad

I'll wait as I like doing business with them and, as I understand it, a case purchase from PR will allow one to send six rounds to Tom Armbrust for testing.

Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 224

the way i see it is that this is a BIG PLUS for anyone who shoots a 16 ga
regular.and the bottom line is that it costs money to have fun. to hell
with the price! lets load up and shoot! and a BIG THANK YOU TO CHARLES
for doing all the work. bluerock

Member Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 665 Location: Louisiana

bowbuilder, now that you mention it I believe you are correct. Embarassed

And bluerock you (and others) are also correct about a big THANK YOU to Mr. Hammack----and while we're at it let's not forget that, if not for 16 Gauge Guy, we wouldn't have the R-16 available.

This site has several 'doers' to which we are all indebited and good members in general---I hope we don't let the periodic acrimony that rears it's head adversely the site or our participation on it.

Joined: 07 Oct 2008 Posts: 74 Location: MO Ozarks

I completely agree that Nick Hammack has done a great job in producing the mold for the 3/4 - 7/8 oz wad. I appreciate his effort a tremendously. That does not stop me from being disappointed at the pricing. I genuinely believe that this price will keep many folks from using the wad. I predicted to Nick that 200,000 + wads would sell in the first two weeks. That was based on a sell price of $11.95 per 500. I no longer think that will be the case, due to the pricing.

I really, really want this wad to be a commercial success, so as to encourage others to get into the 16 ga. market with other products (complete rounds, wads, etc). I am sincerely afraid that the pricing will keep many (and I have no idea how many) folks away from trying to reload 16 ga.

I love my 16 ga. Model 12 and I love to shoot it. I got into reloading 16 ga. so that I could shoot it more. But when I can load for my 12 ga. O/U, which I also enjoy shooting very much, at a lesser cost it seems self-evident to me that that's where I'll go.

You guys can bad-mouth me and call me names all you want, but it does not change the economics of the issue. As I stated in my first post, I will buy a bag of the new wads to try out, but I'm not going to buy the case I was planning on. I'll load enough to use the M12 for dove hunting this fall, but I'm not going to use it at trap the way I had hoped. Not when I can load 12 ga. 7/8 oz. loads for $0.50/box less. I simply can afford to shoot more 12 ga. than I could the 16 ga. It's just the way it is.

Again, my greatest admiration for Nick Hammack. He has done an admirable service to the 16 ga. reloading community. I'm not sure where my beef lies, but I know it's not with Nick.

To those of you who are happy with the pricing, great. I hope you enjoy your reloading and shooting.

Guest

WOW fifty cents, and everyone wonders why we can't get 16 Gauge stuff.

I was talking to a fellow that runs a gun shop on the shoreline here in Connecticut, yesterday. We got to talking about this subject, and his thoughts were that a reloader would stop buying components from you if someone else would supply them for a few cents less. That was my experience also, and I guess this case proves the point once again.

Money rules, sad state of affairs.

So for every 100 rounds it will cost a guy $2.00 more? Hells bells, we will all need to put a second mortgage on the old homestead to afford that outlandish price.

Joined: 07 Oct 2008 Posts: 74 Location: MO Ozarks

dogchaser -

Your snide comments and rude behavior do not change the economic facts. People who cannot debate the facts of an issue often make this sort of ad hominum attack. You seem to feel that by ridiculing me you will somehow make your position stronger. OK, have fun. Deride me as you will, you can't change the fact that price matters, to me and I suspect, to many others. You can act elitist and like costs are not an issue all you want, but many of us must make the most of our limited resources.

It does not cost Down Range any more to make the 16 ga. wad than it does to make a DRA12 wad. They don't even have to amortize the cost of the mold, as Nick Hammack carried those costs. The only reason to sell these wads at these prices, double the selling price of the DRA12 wads, are that they can get them.

If you are happy with that, then I'm pleased for you. I'm not.

Guest

This is rude?

Trust me, I haven't gotten rude yet.

I guess what pisses me off is this. We finally get a product that I assume most folks on this BB wanted. A hard working guy goes out, works who knows how many hours to finally get it made. Then some, so called "gentleman". with his politcally correct English comes on this BB and shits all over it because he doesn't like the price. Great person, nice job!!!

I maybe rude and crude, but I don't go around stabbing a good man in the back.

Put your balls back between your legs and complain to Downrange, if you don't like the price.

Don't publicly put down a good product and hurt a good man in the process!!!

And don't come back meely mouthing that you aren't putting anything down, because that is what you are doing, nothing less.

BTW, no elite attitude here, blue collar all my life, been working since I was 13 years old. I know the value of a dollar, and I know 2 things. Money ain't worth much unless you spread it around, and you don't sell out a good man for money.

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

Die hard reloaders do it to save money.
No one shoots a 16 gauge to save money.
I spent $170.00 on 1000 Cheddite paper hulls, that can only be reloaded one time. If buying these wads is going to change your style of living, or prevent you from being able to retire, then you shouldn't be shooting a 16 gauge. And you damn sure don't need to be bitching about the price on this site.

Member Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 348 Location: Missouri

Pricing is not a consideration to me when it comes to shooting my 16 ga.

I paid almost $1500 for the latest gun and I'm gonna complain about having to pay $30/1000 for wads? I don't think so.

Heck, I would pay $8 a box for Winchester Compression Formed Shells all day long just to be able to build my supply of hulls. (PM me if you have some to sell at that price)

I drive 3000 miles each October with gas at $2.00+ a gallon to shoot 15 pheasants! That's after I pay over $100 for an out of state license.

To each his own. It's a free country. Buy the wads or not but for heavens sake quit complaining over a few cents.

Guest

For you cost conscious guys I just talked to the people at Grafs retail sales. They will be handling the Downrange wad when they become available. If trends remain the same their price will be 15 to 20% lower than any of the other suppliers I have found for wads and even if they are not their shipping charges will more than compensate.