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Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

I use 19.5 grains Universal Clays, BPISPTG16 wad, 1oz lead shot and Winchester 209 primers in Federal Remington and Fiocchi hulls as a target load with good success, except that there seems to be an excess of unburned powder when I open my double gun. The round has a relatively soft recoil and low chamber pressure but I'm guessing that there is shell's worth (19-20 grains) of unburned powder in the barel and action of my gun after a round of skeet. Anyone have any theories or suggestions they want to share about how to lessen or completely avoid this issue or do I just have to live with it? I have used this round for a couple of years in my Remington model 11 and did not notice any significant unburned powder until I started shooting the O/U with extractors, but that could be because the model 11 flings the powder all over the place during ejection.

Member Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 98 Location: Ballwin, MO

I use essentially the same load, in Fiocchi hulls. Yes, there is some unburned powder in the barrel when I am done, but it really isn't enough for me to worry about. I get the same results when using Universal in the 12 ga also.

When I get the new wads, I want to work up a 7/8 oz load using Clays powder, which is much cleaner burning. With luck someone else will work up the load and have it tested by the time I get my wads!

Guest

The issue is the pressure is too low , which creates a poor environment, (lack of heat and pressure), so the powder isn't completely consumed.

Universal burns as clean as Clays, when used in a proper load.

Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 728

Dogchaser

Should I be looking for a load in a specific range of pressures that would reduce the amounts of unburned powder?

Guest

For the medium burn rate powders, if you can get the pressure up over 8,000 PSI, it will help a lot. The fast rate powders like Clays, 700x, Red Dot etc will burn OK in the 7,000 PSI range.

Just remember the higher the pressure the better (more consistent and cleaner), smokeless powders burn, regardless of which powder you use.

I am NOT very impressed with low pressure loads. Low pressure creates more problems than it solves, inconsistent pressure, inconsistent velocity, poor cold weather performance (no such thing as a bad powder for cold weather use) and failure to operate semi-autos are the main problems with low pressure.

With the exception of guns that absolutely require low pressure, I can't think of any positives for low pressure loads.

If you like the old classic guns or more delicately built ones that require low pressure loads, then you will have to accept some unburned powder in your bore. The good news is that unless the load you choose is leaving a wad stuck in the bore now and then, the unburned powder will not hurt things much. It blows out the muzzle with the rest of the ejecta or can be mopped out easily enough.

However, if your gun is a well built modern shotgun, you are accomplishing nothing by insisting on shooting only low pressure loads. My best advice is to use loads that hit 9K to 10K PSI on average and avoid the mess in the bore. These pressures will not hurt the gun one bit. The gun will last as long as you will. If you want to reduce recoil, the best way is go to a lighter shot weight load that burns within the same pressure range. Light loads tend to be easier on the gun as well as low pressure loads.

One more thing to look at. Recheck your reloading procedures. Poorly formed and unfinished crimps, improperly or loosely seated wads and primers, and weakened hull mouths will all cause poor ignition and will lead to poor shell performance. All of these flaws are the most common ones I've seen when examining reloaded shotgun ammo. good craftsmanship counts.

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 118 Location: N.Y.

Guest

Good thread, and I also agree that you'll have a lot less hassle with a a bit more psi and a slightly faster burning powder. I went through this whole deal a few years ago. My loads were not buring the powder completely enough, and it was literally binding up the action on one of my SxS's. Did some scrambling as a "16 ga low pressure group" member and came up with light loads using International Clays. Problem solved! I'm not saying that Int. Clays is the best powder, but in my situation it worked out well. I'd say (again in my case) Green Dot or PB or others might have worked just as well.

Spike, if your load is working out for you with no problems well then you just have to live with more cleaning. I'd probably start trying some other recipes from a reputable source and see if things can be cleaned up on your 1oz loads.

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2007 Posts: 601 Location: Virginia

Not a 16 gauge, but I have been using Universal for handicap trap loads in my 1100 G3. I like the velocity and the way it patterns, but it does leave a lot of residue in the barrel (not a real concern) and the receiver, which makes it a bit of a PITA to clean. It almost looks like sand.

Dan

Guest

Dan,

You have the same problem, low pressure. Universal needs 1 1/4oz. loads or screaming 1 1/8 oz loads in a 12 gauge to build enough pressre to burn clean. It really wasn't designed to be a 12 gauge target load powder. Universal burns CLEAN, but it needs the right payload weight to make it burn correctly.

Member Joined: 02 Oct 2007 Posts: 1975

With the components you're using, in the federal hull it calls for 22.5 grains of powder.The federal hull has more capacity then the others. I've used this load and it burns fairly clean.